The How NOT To Make A Movie Podcast · A L Katz

S4E8: Colman DeKay Knows EVERYBODY!

February 13, 2025·1 hr 2 min·5 clips

Alan Katz frames the conversation around one plain claim: Coleman Decay knows everyone. Coleman then starts unpacking what that really means. He talks through the people he has worked with, had meals with, and kept in mind long after the job ended. Penn and Teller come up as personalities, collaborators, and the kind of smart, difficult, funny performers who can make a room tense in a second. One story puts them above a tight table with a card trick, where Teller blows the punch line and Penn starts screaming at him. The point lands clearly: this is what it looks like to be in the room when a duo like that is working. From there, the episode settles into the kind of show-business excavation this podcast does best. Coleman talks about an ABC special called Phobophilia, which they were trying to build from Penn and Teller bits. The script went to standards and practices at Fox, and the response became its own comedy beat. A scene involving the Three Stooges as carpenters, a table saw, and somebody losing an arm or hand was enough to trigger alarm. The censor in the story is not a cartoon villain but a little old lady with silver hair and big glasses, which only makes the whole thing better. That contrast matters here, because the episode keeps returning to the gap between how outrageous the material is and how ordinary the people policing it can look. The conversation also keeps slipping from production mechanics into human portraiture. Coleman is generous about Teller, calling him articulate, smart, well-read, well thought out, and a perfect gentleman. He says he is almost angelic, and then pauses on the cruelty that can still live inside that elegance. Alan lets those contradictions stay intact instead of sanding them down. That is part of the pleasure of the episode. It is not trying to flatten anyone into a neat anecdote. It is trying to show how people in this world can be gracious, sharp, ridiculous, and difficult in the same breath. The back-and-forth has the looseness of old colleagues who know where the bodies are buried, but also the affection of people who are still amused by the whole mess. The episode is full of side roads that feel like the point rather than distractions. It moves from one memory to another, then circles back to explain why a detail mattered. A special gets discussed, then a censor office becomes a scene, then a poster on a wall becomes the punch line that lingers. The show does not rush to summarize its guest. It lets the guest accumulate. By the end, the title feels accurate in more than one way: Coleman Decay really does seem to know everyone, but what matters is how that network of names becomes a record of how the work got done. The closing stretch brings the conversation back to gratitude, friendship, and the pleasure of having one more session like this on record. Alan thanks Coleman, suggests doing it again, and even jokes about getting the backlighting right next time. That tiny production aside fits the episode perfectly. It has spent so long talking about the craft and chaos of making things that a note about lighting lands as both practical and affectionate. The whole thing feels like a room full of people who have earned the right to remember out loud. It is a good listen if you like entertainment history told from the inside, with enough profanity, warmth, and old scar tissue to keep it from feeling packaged. It is not chasing clean conclusions. It is letting the stories stand up on their own and trusting the listener to enjoy the shape they make.

As heard by us

A sharp, funny pass through industry memory that keeps its edge.

Alan Katz turns a loose conversation with Coleman Decay into something with a clear pulse, letting old encounters, working relationships, and show biz memory pile up without losing the thread.

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Why you'd press play

You want a chat from someone who really does seem to know everyone, including Penn and Teller.

Read the full recommendation in PlayNext →

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