The Behavioral Design Podcast · Samuel Salzer and Aline Holzwarth

The No Club with Linda Babcock

·57 min·5 clips

Linda Babcock found women spend 200 extra hours yearly on invisible work that holds back their careers.

This episode of The Behavioral Design Podcast features hosts Samuel Seltzer and Aline Halsworth in conversation with economist and author Linda Babcock. Babcock is a professor at Carnegie Mellon University and a leading researcher on gender equity in the workplace. The discussion centers on her book, "The No Club," which investigates the imbalance in how work tasks are allocated between men and women. Babcock defines "promotable tasks" as core, visible work that uses specialized skills and advances one's career. She contrasts these with "non-promotable tasks" (NPTs), which benefit an organization but not an individual's career progression, such as note-taking, scheduling, or serving on committees. Her research finds women spend significantly more time on NPTs than their male colleagues, creating a "work-work imbalance." This inequity often begins because women are more frequently asked to perform these tasks and face stronger social pressure to say yes. Babcock shares a personal anecdote about comparing her calendar filled with administrative meetings to a male colleague's calendar dedicated to research. One striking insight is that failing to negotiate a first job's salary can cost a woman over half a million dollars in lifetime earnings, a finding from Babcock's earlier book, "Women Don't Ask." The hosts and guest explore how organizational practices, like broadcasting requests for volunteers via email, systematically funnel NPTs to women. Babcock suggests structural solutions, such as using a lottery system or a rotation schedule to allocate undesirable tasks fairly. She also advises individuals to audit their calendars, rate tasks by "promotability," and schedule time for high-priority work first. A memorable moment involves Babcock recounting a university that proudly reported women held half of all committee assignments, yet women comprised only 20-25% of the faculty, highlighting a disproportionate burden. The conversation includes a behavioral design segment on reimagining workplace calendars to prioritize promotable tasks over deadline-driven or meeting-centric scheduling. Babcock reveals a study at one firm where calendar data showed women spent 200 more hours per year on NPTs than men, providing a clear mandate for organizational change. The tone is conversational and educational, blending personal reflection with research-based insights and practical advice. The hosts engage warmly with Babcock, sharing their own experiences with meeting overload and task management. This episode would greatly interest professionals, managers, and anyone concerned with workplace equity, productivity, and career advancement. Listeners seeking purely technical behavioral science content or those uninterested in organizational dynamics might find it less engaging.

As heard by us

A calendar can make urgent work look more important than it is.

This episode makes a simple case: calendars can blur urgency with importance. Sam and Aline keep it grounded in their own schedules, then show how meetings, appointments, and deadlines can crowd out work that is more strategic or creative. The point lands because it is familiar.

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Why you'd press play

You need a better way to spot the work your calendar keeps burying.

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