Surviving Toxic Relationships Podcast with The Matadoras · Elizabeth Jane and Deana Lynn

Episode #91: Before You Hire a Divorce Lawyer… Listen to This | Mediation, Narcissists & High-Conflict Divorce

·32 min·2 clips

“I was being strong. I was staying because of the kids. ... I’m not brave.”

Lizzie and Dina welcome Elizabeth Merrill, a divorce mediator and communication strategist who helps people move through conflict with clarity and reason. As the founder of Open Space Mediation, she's helped hundreds of couples save time, money, and sanity by handling divorce-related relationships. The conversation opens with the idea that the real cost of divorce is not always the lawyer. It is often the emotion driving the decisions. Elizabeth explains that high-conflict divorces can leave people feeling terrified and vulnerable. She talks about how intimidation can show up in ugly ways, including threats meant to scare the other spouse into backing down. That kind of fear can make it hard to think clearly. The hosts stay close to the pain of it. They name the confusion people feel when they know something is wrong but cannot quite explain it. That feeling matters here, because the conversation keeps circling back to what clarity looks like once the relationship has already been chipped away. Elizabeth describes her work as both satisfying and emotionally exhausting. She says most of the people who call her are women, even though her practice is not set up that way on purpose. She also notes that more women file for divorce than men. The conversation turns to abuse. Elizabeth says she has gone into conversations with attorneys and been treated as if she were making things up. That dismissal is part of the problem, because people who raise abuse concerns should not have to prove their sanity first. Narcissism comes up as well. The discussion acknowledges that the word gets overused, but it also leaves room for the reality that many abusive patterns are underreported. A person who behaves that way is not likely to walk in with a diagnosis and admit the issue. Elizabeth says the pattern feels common and seems to be rising. She speaks from the perspective of her own practice, where she keeps seeing more examples. That practical, on-the-ground view is one of the conversation's strengths. The hosts frame divorce through the lens of families, not just legal process. They keep pointing toward the cost in time, energy, and money when conflict drags on. They also keep the kids in view, since resources should not disappear into a fight that exhausts everyone. The conversation is emotionally direct without turning clinical. It leaves room for truth telling, but it also leaves room for help. The tone stays warm and steady, with a belief that people can get through a hard season without losing themselves. The episode closes with gratitude for Elizabeth's work and a simple invitation to find her through Open Space Mediation. The final note is not flashy. It is calm, practical, and hopeful. You are not crazy. Peace is possible.

As heard by us

A calm, practical listen about divorce, clarity, and the cost of letting emotion drive decisions.

This episode treats divorce less as a legal process than as a test of judgment and composure. Lizzie and Dina talk with mediator Elizabeth Merrill about high-conflict separations, how fear can be used to intimidate people, and how emotion can become the costliest part of a…

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Why you'd press play

Before divorce gets louder, hear what mediation can save.

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