89: Adaptation with David Iserson & Dana Schwartz

·1 hr 36 min·5 clips

Spike Jonze brought an unfinished 'Adaptation' to film students for notes, with Nicolas Cage in head-to-toe leather.

The episode begins with host Phil Iscove introducing himself and Beverly St. James, who is humorously standing in for Emily St. James. Guests David Iserson and Dana Schwartz, both screenwriters and novelists, join to continue the podcast's miniseries on Spike Jonze and Charlie Kaufman's 2000s films, focusing on 'Adaptation'. Iserson recounts seeing an unfinished cut of the film in 2002 when Spike Jonze brought it to his Toronto film school for student feedback, with Nicolas Cage in attendance. Schwartz notes she was too young to see it in theaters, first viewing it as a pretentious high schooler. The panel discusses their initial reactions: Phil felt slightly disappointed but grew to love it, while Dana found it ecstatically funny and inclusive. They debate whether 'Adaptation' is Kaufman's weakest script, with Phil ranking it behind 'Eternal Sunshine', 'Being John Malkovich', and 'Synecdoche, New York'. The conversation shifts to the film's meta-textual elements, with Dana arguing it avoids smugness by letting the audience in on the joke. They explore the character of Donald Kaufman, played by Nicolas Cage, as a sweet counterpoint to Charlie's neuroses. Anecdotes about Susan Orlean's involvement are shared, including her initial embarrassment and cold feet before a screening. The panel compares the film to the book 'The Orchid Thief', questioning how Kaufman adapted such a non-narrative work. They discuss the challenges of adaptation in general, with David noting that adapting beloved books is harder than writing original material. The episode touches on casting what-ifs, like Tom Hanks being considered for the lead, and Chris Cooper's transformative performance. The hosts analyze the film's third-act shift into action-movie tropes and how it manages to stay grounded. They examine Meryl Streep's role as a turning point in her comedic career, though debate whether her performance is truly comedic. The conversation concludes with thoughts on the ending's use of 'Happy Together' and the film's themes of evolution and creativity.

As heard by us

A film adaptation comes into focus through casting hunches, shifting attachments, and Orlean's long path from article to movie.

Adaptation treats the making of a film as a trail of hunches, stalled attachments, and choices that only seem obvious once the movie exists. The review follows the project from Fox 2000's interest in 1994 through Susan Orlean's decision not to sell just the article while she was…

Read the full review in PlayNext →

Why you'd press play

You get the messy route from Susan Orlean holding back the article rights to a film that takes years to find its shape, with casting what-ifs still trailing behind it.

Read the full recommendation in PlayNext →

Listen to the show on

Apple Podcasts Spotify

Play clips from this episode More from Podcast Like It's ...