Daniel Rachel, "This Ain't Rock 'n' Roll: Pop Music, the Swastika, and the Third Reich" (Akashic Books, 2026)

·57 min·5 clips

Cynthia Lennon gave John's Nazi drawings to a neo-Nazi dealer, tracing a bizarre path from Beatle to extremist hands.

Host Bradley Morgan interviews author and musician Daniel Rachel about his book 'This Ain't Rock 'n' Roll: Pop Music, the Swastika, and the Third Reich'. Rachel begins by explaining the book's scope, covering seven to eight decades of rock history where artists employed Third Reich emblems. The discussion opens with a 1956 anecdote about producer Jack Good comparing a Tommy Steele concert to a Nuremberg rally, establishing an early analogy. The Beatles' use of Nazi salutes and John Lennon's private collection of memorabilia, which later reached a neo-Nazi dealer, is detailed. The Rolling Stones' 1965 concert in Germany, where Mick Jagger goose-stepped and manager Andrew Loog Oldham dressed as Hitler, is examined as performative provocation. Rachel notes the music press's silence on figures like The Stooges' Ron Asheton, who openly wore Nazi gear. The conversation shifts to cultural context, including Britain's post-war immigration and the rise of Rock Against Racism, which focused on anti-black racism over anti-Semitism. Serge Gainsbourg's 1970s album 'Rock Around the Bunker', a Jewish artist's satire of Nazism, is highlighted as a rare critique. Punk's adoption of the swastika, led by Malcolm McLaren's distribution at the 100 Club, is discussed alongside the Clash's opposition. Joy Division's name, derived from a concentration camp brothel, and the band's ambiguous relationship with Nazism are explored. Rachel addresses modern examples like Kanye West's anti-Semitic social media posts and record sales. Throughout, Rachel emphasizes documenting history without accusation, noting patterns of behavior and the broader accountability of the music industry and media.

As heard by us

A music-history discussion about the swastika, silence, and responsibility when the symbol reaches the stage.

Daniel Rachel's conversation with Brandley Morgan treats the swastika in music culture as a question of historical memory and shared responsibility.

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