Birthing Instincts · Dr. Stuart Fischbein + Midwife Blyss Young

#460: The Process Is The Punishment....And The Reward with Angee Hock

April 8, 2026·1 hr 36 min·7 clips

Emails show the NICU OB contacted detectives before baby Vera was taken off life support, saying Angie needed to be in trouble 'no matter what happens.'

1. Birthing Instincts episode 460 revisits the criminal prosecution of traditional midwife Angie Hock, who was charged following a surprise breech birth death in Nebraska in June 2019. 2. Dr. Stuart Fishbein hosts with co-host Bliss Young; guest Angie Hock is a retired traditional midwife, now a certified pastor and church coach, who was acquitted after trial and has since pursued work in human rights, medical freedom, and Nebraska legislative reform. 3. The episode's central argument is that criminal prosecution of midwives for tragic outcomes conflates accidents with negligence, is driven by institutional bias rather than evidence, and is compounded by law enforcement tactics that prevent human resolution between practitioners and families. 4. Before the interview, Dr. Stu reads a letter from Angela, a listener whose die-die twin birth — with twin A presenting breech at 40 weeks and 5 days — was attended by a CNM trained by Dr. Stu's breach courses; twin A weighed 8 pounds 6 ounces and twin B weighed 8 pounds 11 ounces. 5. Angie defines traditional midwifery as legally distinct from CPM and CNM credentials in Nebraska, where CPMs cannot attend home births and the state has no licensure pathway for traditional midwives. 6. Angie describes the June 2019 birth: the baby had confirmed vertex presentation on ultrasound but flipped to breech during labor; the family chose to labor at home for a while before agreeing to transfer when the mother became tired. 7. While preparations for transfer were underway, the mother went to the bathroom; about ten minutes later she called out and Angie found her leaning over the tub with the baby already delivered past the umbilicus with a looped cord. 8. The baby's head was hyperextended — what birth workers call 'stargazing' — making every standard maneuver fail because each time Angie released the baby's chin the head sprang back to the hyperextended position. 9. Angie called 911 within 90 seconds of entering the bathroom; EMS arrived and asked 'what do you want us to do?' before refusing to transport the mother until the baby was born, which Angie describes as one of the most difficult moments because she had already exhausted her options. 10. Her last resort was an episiotomy to create room for her own hands, performed with trauma shears EMS provided rather than surgical scissors; she then told the lead EMT 'you have to take her now' and transport began. 11. The baby was born in the ambulance; Angie was not permitted to ride along, had a flat tire when attempting to follow, and the father asked her not to come to the hospital because his parents — who were not home birth supportive — had arrived. 12. Baby Vera died June 17th when taken off life support; Angie still blocks off those three days each year, which she describes as being for the family and the baby rather than for herself. 13. Angie states that the parents never wanted prosecution, told police she did everything her contract promised, and the father testified to that effect in court; after her episode aired the prior year, the parents contacted her to say they were glad she had not been found guilty. 14. Grandparents who had not been part of the prenatal education or decision-making process were the source of pressure that eventually drew in law enforcement, a pattern Angie and Dr. Stu identify as recurring across midwifery prosecutions. 15. Court discovery revealed that the NICU OB caring for Vera sent emails to detectives before Vera was taken off life support, stating that Angie needed to face criminal consequences 'no matter what happens,' and that detectives attempted to question the family at the moment they were preparing to remove life support. 16. Angie describes the search warrant executed at her home approximately three days after the birth — computers and contract documents were taken — and her eventual surrender to authorities while nursing a nine-month-old son. 17. Dr. Stu argues that the core systemic problem is law enforcement separating practitioners from families immediately after difficult outcomes, preventing the human conversation that resolves grief without litigation. 18. Bliss Young connects the case to her own trajectory: she moved to Oregon partly because it allows traditional midwives to practice legally, and she argues all midwife types should have a seat at the table. 19. The episode acknowledges that Nebraska legislation is currently attempting to free certified nurse midwives to attend home births, but no pathway exists yet for CPMs or traditional midwives. 20. Best suited to birth workers, midwifery students, and families navigating out-of-hospital birth in legally hostile states; less relevant to listeners seeking clinical technique content or birth in hospital settings.

As heard by us

A midwife's legal fight is told conversationally, with the human stakes kept front and center.

This episode follows a midwife's account of a June 2019 death investigation and the search warrant that came after it. It works best when it stays close to the human strain in the story: the fast police response, the detectives' pressure, and the uneasy feeling that an OB was…

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Why you'd press play

A midwife's prosecution story with legal and institutional stakes.

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