A patient case for why real school change takes years, not weeks.
It follows the stubborn timeline of school change: what it takes to move practice, why systems resist quick fixes, and why early progress can look smaller than it really is.

Scott McDonald and Ollie Dreon
317 episodes listed below
Science education between theory and classroom reality.
Science In-Between follows Scott and Ollie through the practical contradictions of science education. Their conversations move from teacher competencies, AI, partnerships, and professional development into the slower institutional work required to change classrooms.
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Science In-Between is a long-running conversation about the spaces between science teaching, teacher education, school policy, and the professional lives of educators. Scott and Ollie speak like colleagues trying to reason through problems that do not fit neatly inside a course syllabus or district initiative. The show is measured, but not detached. It begins easily with banter about listener numbers, technical glitches, sports, conferences, music, or television, then turns toward the harder questions underneath ordinary school work. Recent episodes spend significant time on AI in education. The focus is not simple alarm or enthusiasm. Instead, the conversation asks what teachers lose when planning, judgment, research practice, or lesson design are handed too early to a tool they do not yet understand. That concern sits beside a broader skepticism about institutional shortcuts. Schools want change quickly. Teacher education programs face expanding competency requirements. Districts want new graduates who are ready for every aspect of the job on day one. Scott and Ollie keep pressing on the mismatch between those expectations and the slow, relational work that actual improvement requires. Their strongest discussions often come from the middle ground between theory and practice. University-school partnerships, Pennsylvania districts, intermediate units, supervisors, professional development, and field placements all become examples of systems that depend on relationships but rarely give people enough time to build them. The show also pays attention to authority. Episodes question what a state science advisor can realistically do in a system built around district autonomy, and what happens when schools respond to new technology by banning it rather than developing shared norms. The result is education analysis with a working-teacher memory. It remembers classroom constraints. It notices budgets, workloads, certification rules, and the awkward handoff from student to practitioner. It can be funny in a dry, self-effacing way. It can also be pointed when an idea sounds tidy only because someone else will have to absorb the mess. Science In-Between is best for listeners who want careful, unsentimental thinking about science education and the systems that shape it.
Made for: For educators, teacher educators, science supervisors, and education researchers who prefer practical argument over quick prescriptions. It also fits listeners interested in AI, school change, and the slow mechanics of professional learning.
What sets it apart: The show stands out for treating policy, technology, and pedagogy as connected systems rather than isolated hot topics. Its value comes from the speakers' willingness to stay with uncertainty until the real constraint becomes visible.
This is a conversation about how science teaching can move between and connect different worlds.
Based on 6 episodes we listened to · September 2026
Scott and Ollie make science education reform legible by connecting policy ambitions to the constraints, relationships, and judgments that shape practice.
Scott and Ollie treat science education as institutional work, tracing how policies and technologies meet the constraints of classrooms, teacher preparation, and higher education.
Scott and Ollie give school reform's easy answers the faculty-room cross-examination you wanted.
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Short reviews from the PlayNext desk, based on the episodes we processed.
A patient case for why real school change takes years, not weeks.
It follows the stubborn timeline of school change: what it takes to move practice, why systems resist quick fixes, and why early progress can look smaller than it really is.
A measured look at what beginning teachers may not learn when AI takes over planning.
Science in Between treats AI lesson planning as more than a convenience, asking what beginning teachers may miss when they hand over the thinking too soon.
A practical look at how teacher preparation depends on trust, time, and sustained school-university partnership.
Teacher preparation is tested in the space between universities and schools, and this episode keeps that relationship grounded in daily practice.
A grounded discussion of why school technology bans often collide with the workarounds they create.
Science In-Between uses an upcoming Penn State visit as a way into a larger question: what schools do when technology changes faster than their routines.
A grounded discussion of trust, guardrails, and the still-forming practice of using AI in qualitative research.
Science in Between gives its special episode a deliberately crowded table, bringing in three guests to think through a question that is still being formed in real time: how qualitative researchers should work with AI as both the tools and the habits around them keep changing.
A candid look at how competency requirements can overload teacher preparation.
Teacher education comes through here as a system being asked to carry more than its structure can comfortably hold. Scott and Ollie trace a competency-based certification model from policy idea to practical pressure point: universities still shape their courses, but must prove…
A measured look at how ambitious science teaching moves through evidence, experience, and teacher judgment.
Science In-Between uses a welcome note of ambiguity to frame ambitious science teaching, where research, classroom reality, and teacher judgment do not always line up neatly.
A clear look at academic hiring that makes the process feel real.
The conversation puts a job search in higher education under a bright light, and its best quality is the amount of concrete detail it offers. Lunches and dinners with candidates, a teaching demonstration in front of students, student feedback, a search committee, a department…






Scott and Ollie open with playful talk about listener numbers and the strange ways audiences behave.
Ollie and Scott coin the term 'pedagogical offloading' to describe teachers becoming so reliant on AI for feedback, lesson planning, and grading that they lose core professional skills, building on the established idea of student 'cognitive offloading.' They cite OpenAI CEO Sam Altman's stated goal of selling intelligence 'the same way as we sell every other utility, whether it's like water or electricity,' and debate whether AI is really more like electricity, a car, or a heavily regulated technology like x-rays.
Science In-Between hosts Ollie, who has run Millersville University's teacher-education partnerships since 2007, and Scott, who supervises Penn State science-education student teachers, discuss how universities and K-12 schools structure student-teaching placements.
Two co-hosts of Science In-Between, one of whom does AI-focused professional development in K-12 schools, discuss why schools are reconsidering one-to-one laptop and iPad programs as AI complicates assessment reliability.
This episode discusses accommodations in education, sparked by a New York Times article and ongoing debates at universities like Penn State, exploring their origins in K-12 and implications for higher education.
Science In-Between hosts Ollie and Scott are joined by three guests — Elizabeth Langren and Paula of Marymount University's School of Education and Charnette, an institutional-effectiveness administrator at a school on Maxwell Air Force Base — to discuss their research on AI use in qualitative doctoral research.
Science In-Between hosts Ollie and Scott McDonald dig into Pennsylvania's competency-based teacher certification model, which has grown by 22 new state-mandated competencies — covering cultural awareness, trauma-aware mental health, and technology — without removing any older requirements.
Hosts Ollie and Scott discuss Pennsylvania's newly named state science content advisor, Jason Zimmerman, and what the loosely defined role has historically meant for statewide science-standards implementation.
Science In-Between hosts Ollie and Scott examine the difference between 'knowing' facts and 'understanding' them, using AI neural networks as an analogy for how meaning is built from relationships between pieces of information.
The hosts discuss using card games as a tool for science education, sharing their experiences and the prevalence of game-based learning.
Two educators discuss snow days and how schools handle them, blending personal anecdotes with reflections on teaching.
Two educators discuss the challenges and humor of podcasting and science teaching, touching on Bob Dylan's unconventional interview style.
Two hosts discuss their podcast's five-year history and a recurring issue of untitled episodes, blending casual banter with reflections on science education.
Two science educators engage in a casual, reflective conversation about the nature of their podcast and the value of informal musings in science teaching.
Two educators discuss how to support struggling student teachers in science education programs.
Two educators discuss their ambivalence toward New Year's resolutions and their habit-driven approach to personal change.
Two hosts have a casual, unscripted conversation about science teaching and connecting different worlds.
Two hosts engage in a casual conversation about science teaching and connecting different worlds, with playful banter about music and percussion.
Two educators discuss winter preparations and the end of the semester, leading into a conversation about science teaching.
Two educators discuss a recent article from Academe magazine about science teaching and academic life.
Scott and Ollie open with a line about ambiguity and use it to frame a careful conversation about ambitious science teaching, the limits of applied research, and why classroom judgment and research judgment do not always line up.
Science In-Between turns to a faculty search.
Two educators discuss a federal mandate requiring schools to be ADA compliant by April 2026, focusing on digital and physical accessibility beyond ramps.
The hosts discuss unionization efforts in academia, including Ollie's role as union president and a graduate student vote at Penn State.
The hosts banter about a minor injury and celebrate reaching 261 episodes of their science teaching podcast.
The hosts discuss technology challenges in university classrooms at the start of the semester, focusing on wireless projection systems.
The hosts discuss their visually distracting backgrounds and patterns before transitioning to excitement about sharing details of a recent trip to Mexico.
The hosts discuss using virtual backgrounds to simulate being in an office during remote work, with a humorous reveal of switching between virtual and real backgrounds.
The hosts celebrate their 250th episode with humorous banter about the financial losses and lack of wealth from podcasting.
The hosts share listener feedback and a story about a librarian organizing her library around AST, highlighting the impact of their science teaching podcast.
The hosts discuss revisiting a topic about science standards and curriculum evolution in a local school district.
This episode introduces a discussion about thermo aquaticus, a scientific topic, after casual banter about home painting and weather.