Chief Butch Cobb traces stigma, shame, and the hard step of seeking help.
Old School frames Chief Butch Cobb's story as a plainspoken look at how stigma can follow firefighters and former emergency workers long after the crisis ends.
Fire service shop talk, measured against the old days.
The gist
Chiefs Rick Lasky and John Salka talk shop about the fire service, from raising a portable ladder alone to keeping a paper file of buildings sorted by street. They say they do it unpaid, for love of the job, and they make a custom of closing with a reminder to keep the armed forces in mind.
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About Old School
Old School is a conversation between two chiefs, Rick Lasky and John Salka, about the fire service as it works now and as it worked before. Lasky introduces Salka as his best buddy, then jokes that he won't say partner in crime because they are not criminals. That easy rapport carries the show. A recurring cold open strings together fireground voices: a roof being cleared, a second alarm called, people at top-floor windows with a baby. What follows stays close to the work. The episode titles map that work well: 'Throwing Ladders', 'Know Your Buildings', 'Fires in vacant buildings', 'You don’t have to get ready, if you stay ready' and 'What’s the benefit of outside training?'. Ladders come down to self-reliance. A firefighter alone on the outside, or one cut off at a window with fire at his back, may have no time to wait for another company, so exterior firefighters should be able to select, transport, raise, extend and position a portable ladder by themselves. Building knowledge is handled with something almost old-fashioned: a paper file sorted by street, where a note about guard dogs on a roof can be read over the radio when a fire call comes in. It is offered as something a small volunteer or career department without an advanced CAD system can still use. Vacant buildings get a careful distinction between a derelict structure and one that is simply empty, for sale or being worked on by a contractor. The warning is direct. Do not look up the FDNY marking system online and start marking buildings without a written policy behind it. Readiness is treated as an obligation: once you relieve the outgoing member you are on duty, shorts and T-shirt or not, because a 911 caller will not hold off for a shift change. The comparison in the show's name runs under all of it. Training once meant Firehouse magazine, Fire Engineering and hours of driving to see a chief in person. Now there are many groups to learn from, and one speaker says outright that the service 'rolled backwards' in its aggressiveness. The chiefs describe their own range as everything from back then to now, including training, staying active and being a student of the fire service. The episode with guest Chief Butch Cobb, 'Beyond the Flames: A Successful Journey Through PTSD', holds the most personal material. One speaker describes calling an employee assistance program, turning down offices in Jersey City and Bayonne because colleagues might see him, and finally meeting a doctor at the doctor's own house. He puts it down to the stigma that came with being a firefighter back then. The chiefs say they are not paid for the show, and they give out their email addresses on air. One sign-off mentions a Rescue 4 firefighter who died on 9/11. Their stated custom is to close by asking listeners to keep the men and women of the armed forces in their thoughts and prayers, because never forgetting means just that. For a first listen, 'Throwing Ladders' shows the practical side, and the Butch Cobb conversation shows the human one.
Made for: Suits a listener who works in or follows the fire service, volunteer or career, and wants plain talk about ladders, building knowledge and readiness from two chiefs who keep comparing the job to how it used to be done. It also fits a listener who wants to hear firefighters speak frankly about PTSD and the stigma of asking for help.
What sets it apart: Old School measures current fire service practice against older habits, from paper building files to the days when training meant a couple of magazines and a long drive. It also treats firefighter mental health and a standing act of remembrance as part of the same shop-talk conversation.
In their own words
Join Chiefs Rick Lasky and John Salka for their podcast “Old School” where they will be discussing and debating many of today’s fire service trends and events with an appreciation for established customs and fire service traditions. #OldSchool #Tradition
Why you'd press play
At 150 gallons a minute, your 500-gallon reserve buys three minutes; where's the hydrant?
Press play if you want
- Rick Lasky and John Salka to make water-supply arithmetic feel urgent
- to think through why you might need to throw a ladder alone
Portable ladder workBuilding familiarizationVacant and derelict building firesReadiness and shift changeOutside training and staying a student of the jobFirefighter PTSD and stigmaThen-versus-now fire service cultureRemembrance and the armed forces
Talks about
Best episodes of Old School
Short reviews from the PlayNext desk, based on the episodes we processed.
A practical reminder to make portable ladder work second nature before one firefighter has to act alone.
Old School treats portable ladder work as a basic outside job that can become urgent fast, especially when staffing is thin and one firefighter may need to move on their own.
A grounded look at how fire-service training moved from long drives and magazines to a crowded online field.
Old School follows Chief Rick Lasky and Chief John Salka as they look at how firefighters seek training beyond their own departments. They set an earlier world of Firehouse magazine, Fire Engineering, and long drives to hear chiefs teach against today's busy mix of instructional…
A grounded firehouse lesson on readiness, from prepared gear to the colleagues who help make it possible.
Old School treats "stay ready" less as a slogan than as a discipline built into firehouse routine. Chief Rick Lasky and Chief John Salka move from FDIC and the absence of Chief Bobby Holt into the practical moment when a firefighter takes over duty and gear has to be ready…
A grounded fire-service discussion on empty buildings, hazard marking, and the need for clear written policy.
Old School treats vacant-building fires as more than a label, pushing the issue toward policy crews can actually use. Chiefs Rick Lasky and John Salka start with radio traffic, including people at top-floor windows with a baby, fire showing from a second floor, and a second…
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Episodes
- 1
Old School “Beyond the Flames: A Successful Journey Through PTSD” with Chiefs Rick Lasky and John Salka and our very special guest Chief Butch Cobb.
Hidden gem["Chief Butch Cobb says the two things he wants firefighters to hear first about PTSD are that \"there's hope\" and the symptoms \"do not have to last forever.\"", "Rick Lasky and John Salka frame him as a 34-year Jersey City Fire Department veteran, former ISO national director, and Vietnam veteran from the 1st Aviation Brigade in 1968-69.", "Cobb revisits the Worcester outreach that grew into a 1,120-person seminar, drew attendees from 35 states and Canada, and ran for six years to support the six families.", "He also explains why he avoided the Veterans Administration, the Jersey City Medical Center, and Bayonne for years before finally meeting Dr.
Feb 28, 2024·1h 9m·4 clips - 2
Old School ”Throwing Ladders” with Chiefs Rick Lasky and John Salka
Hidden gemOld School's "Throwing Ladders" episode uses a Wichita, Kansas truck story to show a roof ladder with hooks on both ends and a clamp-mounted New York hook.
Dec 2, 2023·47m·3 clips - 3
Old School “What’s the benefit of outside training?” with Chiefs Rick Lasky and John Salka
Hidden gem["Old School with Rick Lasky and John Salka uses a Columbia Southern University class in Evergreen, Colorado to ask what firefighters gain from outside training.", "Lasky says the Evergreen fire chief stayed through both days, and he traces the CSU handoff from Megan Snyder to Tori to Mimi Henning and Sherry Twitty.", "Salka points to FDIC, Firehouse Expo, Fire Department Training Network, Firehouse Magazine, and Fire Engineering as examples of how broad the training market has become.", "The episode argues that realistic props, repeated door-forcing, ladder details, and ideas from Wichita, Kansas give firefighters tools their own department may not have."]
Sep 21, 2023·37m·3 clips - 4
Old School ”You don’t have to get ready, if you stay ready” with Chiefs Rick Lasky and John Salka
Hidden gemChiefs Rick Lasky and John Salka use the phrase 'You don't have to get ready if you stay ready' to frame an episode about FDIC planning, Bobby Halton, and daily firehouse readiness.
Apr 18, 2023·47m·3 clips - 5
Old School ”Fires in vacant buildings” with Chiefs Rick Lasky and John Salka
Hidden gemOld School with Chief Rick Lasky and Chief John Salka opens with Washingtonville's memorial work for five Blooming Grove residents lost on September 11 and four post-9/11 illness deaths added later.
Mar 13, 2023·40m·2 clips - 6
Old School ”Know Your Buildings” with Chiefs Rick Lasky and John Salka
Hidden gemRick Lasky and John Salka center Old School on pre-planning buildings, using a train derailment, a chemical burn-off, and a working fire in a 4,000-person town to show how quickly incidents can scale.
Feb 8, 2023·42m·3 clips - 7
Old School ”Water Supply” with Chiefs Rick Lasky and John Salka
Hidden gemChief Rick Lasky and Chief John Salka spend the episode in Sayville, New York, talking to a volunteer-heavy company officer academy on Long Island.
Dec 5, 2022·54m·3 clips - 8
Old School ”Paying it forward firehouse to firehouse” with Chiefs Rick Lasky and John Salka
Hidden gemOld School's "Paying it forward firehouse to firehouse" centers on flooded Florida firehouses, long apparatus lead times, and departments trading rigs and gear instead of waiting years for new equipment.
Oct 19, 2022·43m·3 clips - 9
Old School ”The dream firefighter, that GREAT one” with Chiefs Rick Lasky and John Salka
Hidden gemRick Lasky and John Sulka argue that the dream firefighter is the real building block of a dream fire department, not the other way around.
Oct 4, 2022·44m·3 clips - 10
Old School ”Willie Tracey remembered” with Chiefs Rick Lasky and John Salka
Hidden gemChief Rick Lassie and Chief John Salka center this Old School episode on Willie Tracy, the FDNY chauffeur from Engine 48 whose unexpected death about two weeks earlier prompted the remembrance.
Aug 11, 2022·43m·3 clips - 11
Old School ”Why we talk about Stockton, Wichita, Lewisville...” with Chiefs Rick Lasky and John Salka
Jun 29, 2022·42m - 12
Old School “Estimating the Hoseline Stretch” with Chiefs Rick Lasky and John Salka
May 24, 2022·40m - 13
Old School ”The Primary Search” with Chiefs Rick Lasky and John Salka
Apr 8, 2022·41m - 14
Old School “Do you really know everything?” with Chiefs Rick Lasky and John Salka
Mar 15, 2022·37m - 15
Old School ”Just another medical run... then surprise” with Chiefs Rick Lasky and John Salka
Feb 16, 2022·41m - 16
Old School ”Working for That Tough Boss” with Chiefs Rick Lasky and John Salka
Jan 27, 2022·34m - 17
Old School ”5 Tactical Benchmarks for Structural Fires” with Chiefs Rick Lasky and John Salka
Fire service veterans Rick Lasky and John Salka discuss firefighting traditions and current events, starting with a reflection on the pandemic.
Jan 3, 2022·52m - 18
Old School ”The Best Moments” with Chiefs Rick Lasky and John Salka
Dec 20, 2021·54m - 19
Old School ”Positioning Aerials & Tower Ladders” with Chiefs Rick Lasky and John Salka
Dec 9, 2021·49m - 20
Old School ”What You Should Know - Your SCBA” with Chiefs Rick Lasky and John Salka
Nov 9, 2021·44m - 21
Old School ”What You Should Know – Your SCBA.” with Chiefs Rick Lasky and John Salka
Nov 9, 2021·44m - 22
Old School ”The Go To Guys” with Chiefs Rick Lasky and John Salka
Oct 21, 2021·33m - 23
Old School ”What You Should Know” with Chiefs Rick Lasky and John Salka
Oct 1, 2021·39m - 24
Old School ”9/11 – Twenty Years” with Chiefs Rick Lasky & John Salka
Fire chiefs Rick Lasky and John Salka discuss the 20th anniversary of 9/11 and its lasting impact on the fire service.
Sep 8, 2021·1h 4m - 25
Old School "What Will Be Your Legacy?” with Chiefs Rick Lasky & John Salka
Aug 1, 2021·44m - 26
Old School "What’s in Your Pockets?” with Chiefs Rick Lasky & John Salka
Jul 20, 2021·33m - 27
Old School "Polishing the Brass--Little Stuff Matters” with Chiefs Rick Lasky & John Salka
Jul 6, 2021·42m - 28
Old School "The Successful Battalion Chief” with Chiefs Rick Lasky & John Salka
Jun 16, 2021·49m - 29
Old School "How Many Lines Do You Have on Your Engine” with Chiefs Rick Lasky & John Salka
Apr 28, 2021·34m - 30
Old School "FDNY Lt Tim Klett - Be Like Tim” with Chiefs Rick Lasky & John Salka
Apr 8, 2021·35m - 31
Old School "The Routine House Fire and Then...” with Chiefs Rick Lasky & John Salka
Mar 4, 2021·43m - 32
Old School "Give Me Your Hook!” with Chiefs Rick Lasky and John Salka
Feb 23, 2021·34m - 33
Old School "Expect Fire” with Chiefs Rick Lasky & John Salka
Feb 11, 2021·42m - 34
Old School “The Mission, The Men and Me” with Chiefs Rick Lasky & John Salka
Jan 27, 2021·46m - 35
Old School "Searching Above the Fire” with Chiefs Rick Lasky & John Salka
Jan 18, 2021·50m - 36
Old School "The Role of the Second Line” with Chiefs Rick Lasky & John Salka
Jan 4, 2021·33m - 37
Old School "Before They're Gone” with Chiefs Rick Lasky & John Salka
Dec 23, 2020·43m - 38
Old School "Holding Your Officers Accountable" with Chiefs Rick Lasky & John Salka
Dec 14, 2020·32m - 39
Old School "Checking the Rigs” with Chiefs Rick Lasky & John Salka
Dec 1, 2020·36m - 40
Old School "The 360” with Chiefs Rick Lasky & John Salka
Fire chiefs discuss fire service traditions and recent hunting trips.
Nov 18, 2020·40m - 41
Old School "Engine Ops--Why We Need Water” with Chiefs Rick Lasky & John Salka
Nov 10, 2020·46m - 42
Old School "Basement Fires" with Chiefs Rick Lasky & John Salka
Oct 27, 2020·42m - 43
Old School "The Rope Rescue” with Chiefs Rick Lasky & John Salka
Oct 14, 2020·45m - 44
Old School "The Deck Gun” with Chiefs Rick Lasky & John Salka
Sep 22, 2020·46m - 45
Old School "The RIT Pack” with Chiefs Rick Lasky & John Salka
Sep 8, 2020·38m - 46
Old School "SCBA - Reduced Profile and Entanglements” with Chiefs Rick Lasky & John Salka
Aug 27, 2020·33m - 47
Old School "Your SCBA - How Much Do You Know?” with Chiefs Rick Lasky & John Salka
Aug 18, 2020·38m - 48
Old School "Social Distancing and Training” with Chiefs Rick Lasky & John Salka
Aug 5, 2020·33m - 49
Old School "Riding and Tool Assignments” with Chiefs Rick Lasky & John Salka
Jul 27, 2020·38m - 50
Old School “Lessons from the firehouse kitchen table” with Chiefs Rick Lasky & John Salka
Fire chiefs discuss the importance of the firehouse kitchen table as a place for sharing experiences and building camaraderie.
Jul 15, 2020·30m