Design chat, headset rumors and a contested intro.
Layout runs on the easy back-and-forth of Rafa and Kevin, whose recent episodes range from Apple headset rumors to one of them learning 3D in Blender. Guests widen the frame, as when Frederique Matti returns to talk about leaving tech for art and turning a painting experiment into a studio, a shop and gallery work.
PRESS PLAY
Layout is a conversation about design, technology and whatever else comes up, carried by two regular voices, Rafa and Kevin. Its episode numbers run into the 250s, and in one episode they wonder how different their voices must have sounded eight years ago. The range is wide. Apple's headset gets two passes in the recent run. In '254: Milanese Battery Belt', the pair swap predictions about the then-rumored device: two 4K panels, a possible outward-facing display, and a battery that might clip to a belt. With Matthaeus Krenn as guest, the talk turns to occlusion, to how a live 3D map of a room handles virtual windows that run into real furniture, and to how a headset would warn someone about to trip over furniture or something a child left in the way. Other episodes are more personal. '252: Adventures Learning 3D' follows one of the pair through a hobby of modeling in Blender, from simple bathroom interiors to a concept for an ice cream shop to trees grown from curves whose leaves refuse to stop intersecting. In '253: Designer to Artist, with Frederique Matti', the guest returns while Kevin is traveling and talks about leaving tech for art. The episode lingers on how quickly her painting went from an experiment around the start of the pandemic to a studio, a shop and work in a UK gallery. She describes herself as in year three of her own art school. '251: A Love Form' is where the pair talk through a vibe shift they have been sensing in the tech industry, a disturbance in the force, as it gets put. The humor is light and keeps coming back. Getting through the intro is a small battle: a guest is told that tradition demands keeping Rafa from reading it, and the tradition is denied on the spot. A stray joke about stretching an iOS 17 wallpaper to 6K ends with an imagined tiny Tim Cook on the side. Then '256: Audio Asterisk' changes the mood. The pair say it will most likely be their last episode and that they are retiring for now, though they leave the back window unlocked in case they want to climb back in. They talk about archiving source files for years before settling on keeping the MP3s, and about the show as a journal of time and place. The goodbye includes a nod to Design Details, a show they recommend to anyone who likes this one. What comes through is conversation rather than instruction: two voices following whatever caught their interest, with the occasional guest along for the ride.
Made for: Suits a listener who likes design and technology talk kept loose and conversational, with room for Apple headset speculation, a Blender hobby and a designer's turn toward painting. It also suits someone happy to work through a back catalog, since the pair say their latest recording will most likely be their last.
What sets it apart: Layout treats design as something people live as much as practice: speculation about Apple's headset sits next to a hobbyist's Blender models and a guest's move from tech into painting. All of it is carried by Rafa and Kevin's teasing back-and-forth, which stretches all the way to a fight over who reads the intro.
A weekly podcast about design, technology, programming and everything else.
A Vision Pro demo meets a coach seat, and your design optimism loses some legroom.
Press play if you want
Short reviews from the PlayNext desk, based on the episodes we processed.
A funny, tender farewell that treats retirement as an unlocked window rather than a locked door.
Layout turns a possible farewell into a funny, uneasy half-goodbye, less an ending than a show testing how loudly it should close the door. The hosts joke through the idea of an "audio asterisk," keep a back window open for some future occasion, and let that image give the…
A design-minded reality check on whether Apple's Vision Pro can handle ordinary rooms.
Layout frames Apple's Vision Pro less as a spectacle than as a practical design problem: what happens when polished spatial demos meet ordinary rooms.
Rafa and Kevin turn Apple’s rumored VR headset into a sharp, easygoing debate about power, design, and wearability.
Layout frames Apple’s rumored VR headset as a compact design debate, less about hype than about how elegant hardware can collide with everyday use.
A candid tech-to-art pivot makes gallery economics and creative motivation the episode's sharpest material.
Layout follows Freddie's move from tech into art in a way that makes the career change feel specific rather than glossy. It tracks the path from early painting experiments to art school, a private studio, a store, and gallery work in the UK, after opening with a funny reversal…
Kevin's move into Blender turns a tree, an ice cream shop, and an iPhone into grounded lessons in starting 3D.
Layout follows Kevin in conversation with Rafa about moving into Blender, learning 3D, and rediscovering the useful discomfort of being bad at a creative skill.
Specialists walking through software's tradeoffs, one system at a time.
Founders and engineers on AI coding agents like Claude Code, and supply chain security.
The hosts discuss rearranging their home office and bedroom, reflecting on how pandemic-era work habits challenge traditional room hierarchies.
Two designers discuss their recent productive weeks, balancing exploration and execution phases in design work, and reflect on the nature of designing versus managing design teams.
Layout 256 is the hosts' farewell, framed as an audio asterisk and an open back window for a possible return.
Layout 255 brings Mateus Krenn back to discuss Apple Vision Pro after he says he spent almost five years at Apple and the last two and a half years at Meta on VR.
Apple’s rumored VR headset is the episode’s main target, but Rafa and Kevin spend a long opening stretch on Logic Pro and Final Cut Pro for iPad.
Layout episode 253 follows Frederike as she moves from tech illustration into painting and describes building a do-it-yourself art school around one repeated hand study.
["Layout's Kevin says he missed being really bad at something creative, which frames the episode's 3D discussion around progress instead of polish.", "He and Rafa talk through Cinema 4D, Blender, geometry nodes, and the way a Shopify hack days project pushed him to switch tools.", "Kevin describes learning through YouTube tutorials, then reusing the same methods to build a Montreal brunch restaurant, an Aesop bottle, and a bathroom scene.", "The episode also breaks down why an iPhone render is a lighting problem, not just a modeling problem, and why separate passes matter."]
Layout hosts Rafa and Kevin examine a tech-industry “vibe shift” from years of investment and growth toward layoffs, business scrutiny, and smaller sustainable products.
Layout hosts Kevin and Rafa debate whether ChatGPT, Midjourney, and Stable Diffusion represent a meaningful technological shift or a wave of mediocre output.
Layout hosts Rafa and Kevin reopen the show as season three after a long break, keeping episode number 249 as a “badge of honor” while planning shorter, biweekly episodes.
Layout examines the release of Hand Mirror 2.0, a Mac menu-bar camera utility that reached roughly 150,000 downloads after launching in 2020.
Layout episode 247 follows Kevin's purchase of the Fujifilm X-T5, an APS-C camera with a 40-megapixel sensor, physical dials, and film-like presets.
Hosts interview two Figma product designers about the new auto layout feature and behind-the-scenes development.
The hosts reflect on their past year and discuss cultural differences in naming conventions.
An interview with Ryan Assan, designer at Figma, discussing improvements to Commons and other design topics.
The hosts discuss recent WWDC events, iOS 15 UI kit, and personal anecdotes about coffee and sleep.