Wise Decision Maker Show · Dr. Gleb Tsipursky

#364: Winning the AI Chatbot Marketing Competition: David Lewallen, CEO of Verbatim Digital

November 26, 2025·20 min·2 clips

AI models use Wikipedia and Reddit as a human vote system, similar to how Google used links.

The episode begins with host Dr. Gleb Tsipursky introducing guest David Lewallen, CEO of Verbatim Digital, an AI-first agency. Lewallen explains his company audits how brands perform in AI chatbots such as ChatGPT, Perplexity, and Google Gemini. He emphasizes the importance of understanding a brand's current visibility as a foundational step. The discussion delves into how large language models are trained, highlighting Wikipedia and Reddit as key sources due to their human-moderated content. Tsipursky draws a comparison to Google's use of links as human votes, and Lewallen agrees, noting AI uses these platforms for a similar grounding mechanism. They explore whether Reddit's karma system or Wikipedia talk pages influence training, with Lewallen suggesting human moderation suffices. The conversation shifts to AI companies forming partnerships with brands, potentially skewing visibility, and Lewallen predicts ads will emerge in chatbots like ChatGPT within a year due to financial losses. Tsipursky mentions Google integrating its shopping graph into Gemini. Lewallen then addresses metrics, explaining AI shortens the user funnel to a single prompt, requiring prompt research instead of keyword research. He distinguishes between model training data (updated every few months) and real-time search grounding, advising brands to invest in Wikipedia, Reddit, and digital PR for long-term training data inclusion. For immediate impact, he recommends optimizing for 'best X' lists that AI queries use. Towards the end, Lewallen speculates on AI's future, suggesting language models may have peaked in improvement, with focus shifting to retrieval-augmented generation (RAG). He reiterates the importance of SEO, Reddit marketing, and digital PR. The episode concludes with thanks and a call to subscribe.

As heard by us

A clear look at how brands can measure and improve visibility in AI search.

Brands are trying to stay visible as search starts to look more like answers. David Llewellyn of Verbatim Digital walks through a practical way to check visibility in ChatGPT, Perplexity, and Google Gemini, then points back to the basics that still carry weight: SEO, Reddit,…

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