Trump Archives - KDA Keeping Democracy Alive Podcast & Radio Show · Burt Cohen

The Power of What Appears to be Improvisation

·1 hr·5 clips

Randy Fertel reveals how Trump's off-the-cuff speaking style exploits the persuasive power of seeming spontaneous.

This episode of the Trump Archives podcast features host Burt Cohen interviewing author Randy Fertel about his book, "Winging It: Improv's Power and Peril in the Age of Trump." Fertel holds a Ph.D. from Harvard and has written extensively on literary improvisation. He argues that improvisation is a vital cultural force extending far beyond comedy stages into politics and daily life. The conversation centers on the concept of "the rhetoric of spontaneity," where the appearance of being off-the-cuff holds significant persuasive power. Fertel cites Donald Trump as a skilled practitioner whose seemingly impromptu speaking style is perceived as authentic and relatable by his base. He contrasts this with more traditionally scripted politicians, noting Hillary Clinton's 2016 campaign represented a careful, mainstream approach. The discussion traces improvisation's roots from jazz in New Orleans, with Louis Armstrong as a key figure, to literary examples like Jack Kerouac's "On the Road." Fertel references Oscar Wilde's idea that "spontaneity is a meticulously prepared art," suggesting effective improvisation often involves preparation. He describes how Trump listens to audience feedback, using the example of the "build a wall" chant becoming a policy plank after a positive crowd reaction. The book's cover features a detail from Hieronymus Bosch's "The Garden of Earthly Delights," which Fertel's publisher selected to symbolize a descent into chaos. Fertel connects improvisation to broader cultural movements, including jazz, rock and roll, and hip-hop, framing the 20th and 21st centuries as an "age of improv" pushing against rigid rationality. He warns of a "dark side" to intuition, referencing Samuel Taylor Coleridge's "Kubla Khan" and the potential for demagoguery. The episode also analyzes President Joe Biden's ability to "read the room," citing his improvised exchange about Social Security during a State of the Union address. Fertel mentions sociologist Lisa Wade's work on hookup culture as an example of spontaneous but scripted social behavior. He concludes by linking the disdain for protocol in superhero narratives to the vigilantism seen in events like January 6th. The tone is conversational and educational, blending literary analysis with contemporary political commentary. Listeners interested in the intersection of performance, psychology, and modern politics will find this episode compelling. Those seeking a purely historical or policy-focused discussion might find the theoretical framework less engaging.

As heard by us

Improv is presented as a public skill with political weight, not just a comic trick.

This episode treats improvisation as something that reaches beyond the stage, using Randy Fertel's Winging It to move through comedy, music, politics, social media, AI, business, and more.

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Why you'd press play

If you want politics explained through improvisation, this one goes straight there.

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