BONUS: A Conversation With NPR's Mary Louise Kelly

·1 hr 14 min·5 clips

Mike Pompeo screamed at Mary Louise Kelly after an interview, demanding she find Ukraine on a blank map.

This episode features a live interview between KOSU Executive Director Rachel Hubbard and NPR All Things Considered host Mary Louise Kelly, recorded at Oklahoma City Community College. Kelly begins by describing the daily routine at NPR, including the 9:30 AM editorial meeting where stories are pitched for All Things Considered. She explains the chaotic control room environment during live broadcasts, where producers scramble when interviews fall through. Kelly discusses the challenges NPR has faced over the past year, including funding uncertainty and accusations of bias, and outlines new editorial review processes like the 'backstop' system for fact-checking. She shares insights from her time covering national security, including how she broke the story about the CIA disbanding the bin Laden unit. A significant portion focuses on her memorable interview with then-Secretary of State Mike Pompeo in 2020, detailing the contentious questions about Ukraine and the post-interview confrontation where he screamed at her and quizzed her on a map. Kelly also opens up about personal struggles, such as receiving a call about her sick son while reporting from Iraq, which led her to prioritize family over career. She reflects on turning down an interview with the head of Russian foreign intelligence for a family trip. The conversation covers the role of local public radio stations in national storytelling, the importance of human-centered journalism, and her hopes for the future of media. Kelly concludes with a personal connection to Oklahoma, where her grandfather was born.

As heard by us

Mary Louise Kelly revisits the Pompeo interview as a test of reporting judgment.

Mary Louise Kelly's Oklahoma City conversation turns a tense foreign-policy interview into a study of editorial judgment. In discussion with KOSU Executive Director Rachel Hubbard, Kelly revisits her exchange with Pompeo on Iran and Ukraine, including the on-the-record map quiz…

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Why you'd press play

You want the story behind Mary Louise Kelly's Pompeo interview, including the Ukraine map quiz that happened off tape.

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