445. What’s Democracy Got to Do With AI? (ft. Bruce Schneier)

·1 hr 6 min·5 clips

Security expert Bruce Schneier explains how AI is transforming democracy beyond deep fakes and propaganda.

Hosts Jathan Sadowski and Edward Ongweso Jr. welcome security expert Bruce Schneier to discuss his book 'Rewiring Democracy: How AI Will Transform Our Politics, Government, and Citizenship', co-authored with Nathan Sanders. Schneier explains that the book aims to move beyond debates about deep fakes and propaganda to explore the broader impacts of AI on democratic systems. He emphasizes separating AI as a technology from the humans using it, arguing that harmful implementations like Australia's robo-debt scandal are due to human fault. The conversation shifts to positive global examples, with Schneier detailing five cases: Japan's AI avatar politician Takahiro Anno, France's AI for writing laws, AI in Canadian government administration, Brazil's AI in courts, and California's CalMatters AI for journalists. Schneier advocates for specialized, purpose-built AI models over universal ones, noting the trend toward smaller, more efficient systems. He discusses labor market impacts, warning that AI could hollow out apprentice professions like law and medicine. The hosts explore public interest technology, with Schneier highlighting Switzerland's Apertus model as an example of AI built without profit motives. The discussion touches on tech sovereignty, with Schneier noting countries seeking alternatives to U.S.-dominated tech stacks. Security concerns are addressed, with Schneier describing the 'lethal trifecta' of vulnerabilities in large language models, including prompt injection attacks. The episode concludes with a lighthearted segment on Schneier's weekly squid blog posts and his avoidance of social media.

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A clear, grounded discussion of AI, democracy, and the workplace pressure behind productivity gains.

This Machine Kills keeps democratic politics and AI in the same frame, tracing the stakes into government, citizenship, and work. Bruce Schneier, a security technologist and coauthor of Rewiring Democracy, How AI Will Transform Our Politics, Government, and Citizenship, gives…

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You get Bruce Schneier on AI, democratic life, and the way productivity tools can quietly turn into bigger workloads and higher expectations.

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