Thinking Celestial - A ”Follow The Prophet” Series Podcast · SLCC Institute of Religion

Ep 168 S6 Steve Rose "They Are Their Own Judges" David A. Bednar

·32 min·2 clips

"No, no, no. I've given you the power to choose, so you can choose me."

Episode 168 opens with the familiar, casual back-and-forth that gives the show its rhythm. Kirk Burbage welcomes Steve Rose and notes that the podcast is closing out its sixth season. The two banter a little about titles, status, and the small-scale feel of the project. That looseness sets the table for a more serious discussion. The talk moves into Elder Bednar’s message and the plan of salvation. Kirk says he has learned that Heavenly Father’s plan is worth it, that what people do in this life matters, and that the Savior’s atonement makes that plan possible. From there, the conversation settles on agency. Steve and Kirk treat agency as more than simple choice. They frame it as part of becoming developed people. If God only wanted flawless beings, the reasoning goes, He would have made them that way from the start. Instead, the plan asks people to move through experience, encounter difference, and learn what it means to choose love when it is not automatic. The idea stays close to daily life. It becomes a question about how a person responds to someone difficult, frustrating, or even hated. One of the strongest threads in the episode is the link between judgment and charity. Kirk talks through the feeling of wanting to punch "that little stinker" in the face, then realizing from a soul-level perspective that the person is still God’s child. That shift is the point. Agency is presented as the power to decide whether to harden or soften, whether to react or to love. The conversation returns to a line from Elder Bednar that gives the episode its spine: the fundamental purpose of the exercise of agency is to love one another and choose God. Steve and Kirk linger there. They read it not as a slogan but as a demand on ordinary relationships. The show keeps pressing toward application instead of treating the doctrine as something to admire from a distance. There is also a steady emphasis on development. The speakers resist the notion that the plan is about making people instantly godlike. Instead, they argue that the struggle itself is the point. Judgment, conflict, and choosing in hard conditions all become part of the learning process. That gives the episode a serious tone without making it heavy-handed. The final stretch stays devotional and testimony-centered. Kirk bears witness that Jesus Christ is a living Savior and that Alma’s promise is true now, tomorrow, and forever. The episode ends with the show’s usual institutional framing and an invitation to share it or enroll in the associated institute class. The overall effect is warm, direct, and teacherly, with the doctrinal point kept close to daily use. This is not a flashy episode. It is a thoughtful one. Its value comes from the way it keeps taking one doctrine and asking what it should do to a person’s habits, language, and patience. That is where the episode finds its weight.

As heard by us

A warm, practical take on agency and what it means to choose God.

Thinking Celestial ends its sixth season by taking Elder Bednar's words on agency seriously and reading the point of agency as a call to love other people and choose God.

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Why you'd press play

You want a Bednar talk unpacked in plain talk about agency, choosing God, and learning to love the people you would rather judge.

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