The Trials of Frank Carson · Los Angeles Times

Aftershow bonus 1 | The lawyer and the thief

·32 min·2 clips

Frank Carson says he tells prosecutors, 'I have a butcher knife, and if I get a chance to get behind you and stab you, I'll do it, for my client.'

Chris uses this bonus episode to step a bit outside the main case and talk through the work behind it. He is joined by Steve Clough, his Los Angeles Times editor and a longtime collaborator. Together they look back at the first episode of The Trials of Frank Carson and note that this is the third podcast they have worked on together, after Dirty John and Man in the Window. The tone stays reflective, but it never drifts from the reporting. The emphasis is on how the story came together and why that process matters. From there, the discussion moves into Carson’s place in Stanislaus County. He is framed as a hometown boy from Modesto, and that local identity may have helped give him credibility with some jurors when he was casting doubt on local law enforcement. The episode points out that Modesto is a very conservative community, but also one with a strong streak of distrust toward authority. Carson seems to have worked that tension to his advantage. The conversation also connects his style to the kind of lawyer who attacks everything on every issue and never lets go. That approach is presented as part of why he was so effective. The episode then widens into a specific earlier case Carson discusses. It involved a single mom who was a nurse with a special-needs child. She was accused of being a sex offender after allegations about talking salaciously to teenage boys and eating a banana provocatively. Police searched her house and found a Ouija board, which Carson says they treated as proof of devil worship. Carson remembers it as one more example of the cases he says he has had to try over the years. That example gives the episode its sharpest edge. It shows how quickly ordinary details can be turned into incrimination. The bonus keeps pressing on that idea without dressing it up. It treats local culture, courtroom strategy, and public suspicion as connected forces. The result is less a recap than a working conversation about how one lawyer won trust and how a case narrative gets built.

As heard by us

A bonus episode that shows how local credibility and courtroom suspicion shape a case.

This bonus episode steps away from case retelling and looks instead at how the reporting gets built. Chris Goffert sits with editor Steve Clough to revisit the first episode of The Trials of Frank Carson, reflect on the third podcast they have worked on together, and trace a…

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