4 - Say Hi to Cathy

·31 min·2 clips

Russ Faria's legs gave out when he heard the guilty verdict, held up only by bailiffs who took their job seriously.

1. Episode four of Dateline NBC's 'The Thing About Pam' picks up after Russ Faria's 2014 murder conviction was overturned and covers his November 2015 retrial. 2. Host Keith Morrison first interviewed Russ in February 2014 at the Fulton correctional facility, where Russ said the conditions and food were better than county jail — a man sentenced to life in prison finding something to be grateful for. 3. Defense attorneys Joel Schwartz and Nathan Swanson describe the second trial as uniquely disorienting: in 27 combined years of practice, they had never tried a case without knowing what theory the prosecution was presenting. 4. Prosecutor Leah Askey presented the same case a second time, including the 56 stab wounds and Russ's alleged abusive behaviour, along with new witnesses and a critical letter found on Betsy's laptop. 5. The letter, addressed to Pam but never sent, said Betsy feared Russ 'is going to do something to me' and described him telling her 'how much money he would make after I die' — it backed up Pam's version of events. 6. Computer forensic analysis found the letter was the only document on Betsy's laptop with 'author unknown' as its metadata — Joel argued it had been composed on a different computer and transferred, and that it was created at a time when Betsy was playing tennis while Pam was allegedly with her. 7. A recording played at trial showed detectives explicitly suggesting to Pam that Russ had been at the house the night of the murder and asking whether she saw him — Pam said no; months later in another interview she said she had seen him. 8. Producer Christine Fillmore called the coaching recording 'brazen' — she had never seen a witness being fed a theory on tape. 9. Pam's stories became what Joel described as 'supercharged' over time: she claimed a sexual relationship with Betsy, alleged Russ physically attacked her and threatened to 'chop her up,' and said she had withheld these details for years. 10. Nathan Swanson noted that Pam couldn't maintain consistency within a single interview, much less across years — her stories contradicted themselves over the course of an hour. 11. Betsy's close friend Rita Wolf, called as a prosecution witness, said she and Betsy had talked about sex frequently and Betsy had never mentioned any involvement with a woman. 12. A May 2015 recorded conversation between Pam Hupp and prosecutor Leah Askey — made public — showed the two gossiping about Joel Schwartz, with Askey saying his appeal was really about hurt feelings after losing, and agreeing with Pam that the legal system was 'tainted.' 13. The judge in the retrial criticised the police investigation in open court, stating it 'raised more questions than answers' — a significant rebuke of the Lincoln County investigation. 14. Russ chose a bench trial for the retrial, reasoning that a jury had convicted him once; three hours after closing arguments the judge delivered a not-guilty verdict. 15. Russ's legs gave out for the second time in a courtroom — the first was after the guilty verdict in 2014 — and he was held up by Nathan Swanson, then embraced Joel Schwartz. 16. Despite acquittal, prosecutor Leah Askey declined to reopen the murder investigation and issued a written statement saying probable cause had always existed to believe Russ committed the crime. 17. At the civil trial over Betsy's life insurance, Pam Hupp gave testimony that producer Christine Fillmore described as 'verbal gymnastics' — repeatedly claiming not to understand questions, contradicting herself, and waving her hand to dismiss the attorney. 18. Pam admitted under oath she had lied about the insurance proceeds to 'anybody that would bug me,' and her own attorney told the court she was 'not a credible witness' — yet she won the civil case because the paperwork naming her as beneficiary was legally valid. 19. True-crime listeners who have followed the case from earlier episodes will find this instalment the most dramatically satisfying, with the verdict, the coaching tape, and the civil-trial admission all in one episode. 20. New listeners who haven't heard previous episodes will find the references to prior events and characters confusing without background.

As heard by us

A grim look at how a late accusation can warp a murder trial.

The episode tracks how the defense pushes back on Pam Hupp's later account, especially the claim about Betsy's affair and the way it could make Russ Faria look worse.

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Why you'd press play

Press play if you want a death investigation that turns wild, unexpected, and utterly bizarre.

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