The Talk Show With John Gruber · Daring Fireball / John Gruber
427: ‘The Shift-2 Crowd’, With Jason Snell
July 25, 2025·2 hr 12 min·5 clips
John Gruber and Jason Snell dismantle the NFL's plan to use lasers for ball spotting after one bad call.
As heard by us
Gruber and Snell turn old keyboards and Apple margins into a sharp comparison with Quest and Vision Pro.
John Gruber and Jason Snell use a loose catch-up to make old computer hardware feel newly relevant. After a quick detour through baseball, they settle into keyboards, regional character sets, Commodore's cost discipline, Apple's higher margins, and the way those choices shaped…
Why you'd press play
The Commodore 64 versus Apple IIe price relationship mirrors Meta Quest versus Vision Pro, almost exactly.
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