The SIREN Podcast · Social Interventions Research and Evaluation Network

Lessons from Abolition Work in Other Sectors: What Can Social Care Learn?

·48 min·4 clips

Osagie Oba reveals how medical professionals serve as police, justifying law enforcement through racial science.

This episode features a panel discussion on applying abolitionist frameworks to social care in medicine and education, hosted by pediatrician and public health advocate Dr. Rhea Boyd. The panel includes Professor Osagie Obasogie from UC Berkeley and Stanford graduate student Darion Wallace, who explore how abolition can reshape institutional approaches to inequality. They examine the connections between healthcare, education, and systemic injustices rooted in racial capitalism and white supremacy. Professor Obasogie defines abolition as an opportunity to reimagine institutions like law enforcement and medicine, which are steeped in histories of stigma against vulnerable populations. Darion Wallace describes abolition as disrupting the myriad violences experienced by marginalized people, specifically within education by separating the concept of schooling from true learning. The conversation traces the history of abolition from the end of slavery to its modern applications, confronting how racial inequality is foundational to systems like healthcare. Dr. Boyd references scholar Dorothy Roberts, who notes that over one in ten Black children will be placed in foster care, linking this to a historical pattern of family separation post-slavery. The panel discusses how medical professionals often act as extensions of law enforcement, using scientific terms to justify policing and surveillance. Wallace explains the distinction between "reformist reforms," like food pantries in clinics, and "non-reformist reforms," which aim to dismantle underlying ideologies like anti-Blackness. A key tension identified is between individual-level clinical interventions and population-level public health approaches, with social care sometimes serving as a polite management of inequality. The discussion highlights mandated reporting in child welfare as a carceral logic embedded in both medicine and education. One surprising insight is the idea that systems like healthcare are not broken but functioning as designed, producing racial health inequities as intended outcomes. The panel critiques the notion that providing social services within clinical settings is sufficient without addressing root causes like wage disparities or environmental pollution. They emphasize that abolition is an orientation toward work, not just a solution, requiring cross-sector collaboration between law, health, and education. A memorable moment is the call for "police-free hospitals" and reimagining security in healthcare settings without law enforcement. The tone is educational and conversational, grounded in scholarly references and personal expertise from the panelists' respective fields. It adopts a narrative style, weaving historical analysis with contemporary examples to build a case for institutional reimagination. Listeners interested in social justice, public health policy, and critical race theory would find this episode deeply engaging. Those seeking simple solutions or opposed to structural critiques of medicine and education might find the discussion too abstract or challenging.

As heard by us

A careful abolition discussion that links child welfare and health care to the harms protective systems can reproduce.

This episode treats abolition as more than a criminal justice argument, and that wider frame gives it real force. It connects child welfare, mandated reporting, and health care without flattening the differences between them, while keeping race and institutional power at the…

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If you want abolition explained through social care, not slogans, press play.

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