The Restaurant Guys · The Restaurant Guys

The Culinary School Promise — And the Kitchen Reality | Nicholas Harary

·37 min·3 clips

Nicholas Harary exposes how culinary schools waste $6,000 teaching outdated sauces no restaurant uses today.

This vintage episode of The Restaurant Guys podcast features hosts Francis Schott and Mark Pascal in conversation with New Jersey restaurateur Nicholas Harary. The discussion centers on the value of culinary education versus real-world apprenticeship in the restaurant industry. Nicholas Harary, owner of Restaurant Nicholas and a Culinary Institute of America graduate, argues that modern culinary schools fail their students. Harary states that culinary school tuition has risen from roughly $30,000 to over $90,000 since he attended. He claims the curriculum remains outdated, still emphasizing classic French sauces like bechamel that few modern restaurants use. He notes that roughly 50% of culinary graduates now take jobs in corporate contract dining to afford their loan payments. Harary asserts that nine out of ten culinary school graduates leave the cooking profession within ten years. A key complaint is that schools spend six weeks teaching these outdated mother sauces, which Harary values at a $6,000 cost to students. He finds that graduates often lack practical line-cooking skills and yet expect sous chef positions and salaries to offset their debt. Harary contrasts this with successful American chefs like Thomas Keller and Charlie Trotter, who learned through European-style apprenticeships, not formal schools. He has started a two-year apprenticeship program at his restaurant, promising superior education and no debt. The hosts share anecdotes, including a professor who gave a failing grade to what became the successful business plan for their restaurant, Stage Left. They also critique the externship system, where students pay tuition to work for free in restaurants, sometimes later demanding pay. The tone is conversational and opinionated, featuring friendly debate between industry veterans. This episode would strongly appeal to aspiring chefs, culinary students, and parents considering expensive culinary education. Listeners seeking a formal defense of culinary schools or those uncomfortable with critical industry opinions might choose to skip it.

As heard by us

A restaurant-date story opens into a sharp look at whether culinary school still matches how kitchens really work.

The piece starts with a familiar date-night setup and uses it to ask a sharper question: what should chefs actually learn, and what gets lost when kitchens no longer make everything from scratch?

Read the full review in PlayNext →

Why you'd press play

When you want a blunt restaurant-school argument with real kitchen texture.

Read the full recommendation in PlayNext →

Listen to the show on

Apple Podcasts Spotify

Play clips from this episode More from The Restaurant Guys