Rise Above with Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman (Interviewed by Dr. Jonathan Haidt)

April 24, 2025·48 min·4 clips

A teacher's question sparked Kaufman's realization that no one was coming to save him from special education.

Trauma is the opening problem. Kaufman starts by acknowledging that the culture’s sharper attention to painful experience is not wrong on its face. Serious events can shape people. The trouble begins when trauma language stretches so far that almost anything can start to sound like proof of damage, powerlessness, or a fixed identity. Haidt takes the interviewer seat here, and Kaufman walks through the case behind Rise Above with a mix of research talk and practical concern. The central issue is agency. He pushes back on the idea that pain is so locked in the body that thought has little useful work left to do. That frame can leave people stuck. Kaufman puts more weight on resilience, education, and the possibility that people may have more room to act than they think. His first target is internal. Before blaming the outside world, he asks listeners to look at the patterns inside themselves that can turn them into their own captors. Cognitive distortions matter: catastrophizing, black-and-white thinking, and reading hostile intent into neutral moments can do real damage when people accept them without question. Emotions get similar care. Kaufman is not asking anyone to ignore feelings. He is saying a feeling does not automatically deserve the steering wheel. Distance can be practiced through meditation, reflection, and reframing, so an emotion can be examined without becoming the whole story. The conversation closes warmly, with Haidt reading his blurb and placing Kaufman’s work alongside creativity, positive psychology, flourishing, ancient wisdom, and modern psychology. The useful tension remains: honor suffering without letting suffering become the only identity available.

As heard by us

A measured discussion of trauma language, cognitive habits, and the agency available inside difficult experience.

Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman joins Dr. Jonathan Haidt to discuss Rise Above and its argument for moving past a victim mindset without dismissing the reality of difficult experience.

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Why you'd press play

You want a sharper way to think about trauma, agency, and the stories your own mind tells.

Read the full recommendation in PlayNext →

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