The Poetry Magazine Podcast · Poetry Foundation

Kiki Petrosino and Cindy Juyoung Ok on Crestfallenness, Cookbooks, and More

·38 min·2 clips

Kiki ends the essay by wanting to read language “dressed as a pilgrim, not a tractor.”

1. The Poetry Magazine Podcast episode centers on Kiki Petrosino’s essay “On Crestfallenness, Pilgrim, Not a Tractor” and the feeling she names as “crestfallenness.” 2. Host Cindy Chou-Young Ok interviews Kiki Petrosino, who has five books with Sarabande and teaches creative writing at the University of Virginia. 3. The episode asks what poets do with disappointment, desire, and the sense of “not measuring up.” 4. Petrosino says the essay was hard because she often feels that other people have “another life out there of accomplishment and success” that she is not living. 5. Cindy introduces Nicole Cooley’s “Textual Envy” prompt and asks Petrosino which text she wishes she had written. 6. Petrosino names Emily Dickinson’s “There’s a Certain Slant of Light” and Elizabeth Bishop’s “First Death in Nova Scotia.” 7. She describes Bridget Pegeen Kelly’s “Iskandaria” as a poem that moves from a scorpion to the divine and makes her feel “a step behind the great work.” 8. Petrosino reads the start of her essay: “What’s desire for poets?” and stacks desire with silence, “magical knots,” and “revelation on your tongue.” 9. The conversation shifts to her ninth-grade poetry workshop in Baltimore with teacher Amy Gibson. 10. Petrosino says that workshop was one of the first places she began to identify as a poet. 11. She describes University of Virginia as a “master’s in poetry” environment with Charles Wright, Gregory Orr, Lisa Russ-Sparr, Italian, and music. 12. Petrosino explains that Jefferson entered her work through the university, Sally Hemings, DNA evidence, and questions of inclusion and exclusion. 13. Her memoir and poetry about Virginia connect to her mother’s family, research visits, and ancestral ties in counties near Albemarle County. 14. Petrosino calls research “pretty expansive” and says that standing on Virginia soil counts alongside archives and libraries. 15. The episode also covers her interest in Italian sonnets, Petrarch, Florence, and NYU in Florence. 16. She describes teaching in the Italian-speaking canton of Ticino in Switzerland after graduating from UVA in 2001. 17. Petrosino says she returned to that Swiss school about 20 years later and had to speak Italian for a talk and student questions. 18. She contrasts her Italian-speaking self, which asks for help and collaborates, with her English self, which can “hold forth by myself.” 19. The tone is interview-based, reflective, and teacherly, with long readings from the essay and poems. 20. Listeners who like poetry craft, identity, languages, and cookbooks will fit this episode; listeners wanting fast banter or plot-driven storytelling may not.

As heard by us

A thoughtful poetry conversation that turns crestfallenness into a precise meditation on desire, ancestry, and place.

Kiki Petrosino's conversation with Cindy treats crestfallenness as more than a passing feeling; it opens onto desire, identity, ancestry, and place.

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Why you'd press play

If you want poetry talk that lingers, this one stays with you.

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