A Field Manual to Conscientious Objection | Captain Josephine Guilbeau

April 8, 2026·1 hr 21 min·6 clips

Jones invokes Franz Jägerstatter — executed for refusing Hitler's loyalty oath — as the model for U.S. soldiers refusing illegal orders today.

1. The Jason Jones Show presents a conversation with Captain Josephine Guilbeau, recorded on what Jones calls 'World War III Eve,' anticipating a U.S. military strike on Iran. 2. Guilbeau is a former U.S. Army Captain who served 17 years as an enlisted combat medic (2-5-6 Infantry Brigade) and then as an Army intelligence officer, resigning in 2023; she was subsequently a defense contractor at DHS. 3. The episode's core thesis is that U.S. military personnel have not only the right but the legal and moral duty to refuse illegal orders — and that refusing such orders is an act of courage, not cowardice. 4. Jones anchors this thesis in the case of Franz Jägerstatter, an Austrian farmer executed for refusing to swear loyalty to Hitler, whose bishop and priest had urged him to take the oath for prudential reasons. 5. He also invokes St. Maximilian Kolbe and Archbishop Rummel as historical models, and states that the highest-ranking chaplain in the U.S. Army and Pope Leo have both declared the current war unjust. 6. Guilbeau describes her personal reckoning after October 7, 2023: she researched the Iraq War and discovered that Netanyahu had personally testified before Congress endorsing WMD claims that were later found to be false, and that Israeli intelligence had contributed to that false case. 7. She describes Eisenhower's farewell address warning about the military-industrial complex as the structural explanation: defense corporations require continuous weapons use to sustain their economic model. 8. Guilbeau recounts 'dark days' processing missions she participated in over 17 years, and says posting her first anti-war video on Facebook in November 2023 — to an audience of 400 family members — began her public advocacy. 9. Jones describes personally evacuating wounded Palestinians from Gaza into Egypt, delivering water and meals through a logistics partner in Amman when other organizations could not get access, and giving every Christian in Gaza a pop-up home last Christmas. 10. Both hosts discuss how the Vulnerable People Project lost two young women it was trying to rescue in Afghanistan the same week, and Jones reflects on not taking personal credit for successes while not accepting personal blame for failures. 11. Guilbeau uses the sheep/shepherd/wolf framework to argue that evangelical Christians have been 'programmed to be sheep' and lack the theological formation to resist state violence, while Catholic Mass teaches active moral engagement. 12. Jones says that W.H. Auden's poem 'September 1939' traces the causes of World War II back to Martin Luther, and that Protestants have historically become 'utterly useless in the face of tyranny when it counts.' 13. Guilbeau cites polls showing 82% of Israeli society sees nothing wrong with the Gaza war, and asks what ideology has been taught generationally to produce that level of desensitization. 14. Jones describes a friend who refused to read a report Jones sent him on Palestine because he was afraid it would persuade him and make him 'culpable.' 15. The hosts discuss Bishop Robert Barron by name, with Jones saying he is 'praying for Bishop Barron' and predicting that clergy deeply attached to Zionism may leave the Catholic Church within 12 months. 16. Jones mentions a Liberty University graduate who called him saying 50% of students at Liberty are opposed to Zionism and 50% are 'rabidly' pro-Zionist, and describes this as a 'civil war' within evangelical Christianity. 17. The episode is conducted as a personal, intimate interview between two veterans who share Catholic faith and opposition to the current war, with frequent direct addresses to specific public figures including J.D. Vance and Randy Fine. 18. Jones is openly emotional and combative — describing his own road rage and MMA hobbies to contrast with his grief over Gaza — while Guilbeau is measured and spiritually focused, regularly attributing her actions to 'being God's vessel.' 19. Best suited for Catholic listeners interested in military ethics, conscientious objection, and the intersection of faith with U.S. foreign policy. 20. Listeners who want balanced coverage of the conflict or are not interested in explicit Catholic theological framing of military duty will find the episode difficult.

As heard by us

A blunt conversation about Gaza, faith, and Christian responsibility that ends in advocacy and fundraising.

Jones brings Josephine Guilbeau into a conversation that jumps quickly from military service to Gaza, Zionism, and the place of faith in war. It does not settle into a polished interview.

Read the full review in PlayNext →

Why you'd press play

If you want a charged Christian conversation about Gaza and Zionism, this episode does not try to sound neutral.

Read the full recommendation in PlayNext →

Listen to the show on

Apple Podcasts Spotify

Play clips from this episode More from The Jason Jones Show