The Guilty Feminist · Deborah Frances-White

Ten for Ten #5 with Susan Wokoma

February 2, 2026·1 hr·4 clips

A makeup artist told Susan Wokoma she needed to be made lighter-skinned for a children's TV show.

The sofa matters here. Deborah sets up the anniversary as 10 years old, 10 regular contributors, and a recording in her own home. Susan has her own history with the room: it was where she had her 30th birthday party. That lets the conversation start as friendship, not a formal interview. The New Year's Eve story does the same work. They remember the party where they met, how quickly they connected, and the sense that they were straight in and it worked. Then the mood tightens. Susan talks about early television work where outdoor lighting became the excuse for making her skin look lighter. What makes it hit harder is how ordinary the process sounds. No one has to stand at the top and announce cruelty. The instruction moves down the chain until the person in the chair is left to take it in. Sketch comedy makes the whole thing more jagged. Susan is meant to be quick, playful, and inventive, shifting accents and costumes, while the first task is still to change her complexion. Deborah keeps the reaction plain. She names how stark it is to ask a Black woman to be made lighter, then gives Susan room to explain the messier machinery behind it. Susan is trying to perform while looking around the set, wondering who made the call. That uncertainty has its own sting. Susan also keeps the scale clear without softening the point. It was shocking, even if it was not the worst thing in the world. The ending opens back out toward curiosity, art, activism, and building something together. The brick joke keeps the bite in it: bring bricks to build, and maybe save one for people who need it.

As heard by us

A warm anniversary sofa chat turns into a candid, funny reckoning with friendship, comedy, and being asked to shrink under the lights.

The Guilty Feminist turns its 10-year birthday into a sofa catch-up, with Deborah Francis-White and Susan McComber looking back at the New Year's Eve party where they first crossed paths and the odd intimacy of finding a decade inside one friendship.

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Why you'd press play

Press play for a sofa-side reunion that lets the funny drift into the hard stuff.

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