127. Psychedelic Therapy in the UK with Dr Laurie Higbed and Dr Owain Winfield

·45 min·1 clip

The only psychotherapist trained in MDMA, psilocybin, and ketamine therapy speaks

David Nutt opens with a careful distinction. Regular listeners may already know the science, pharmacology, and history of psychedelics, but this episode turns toward psychology and psychotherapy. The question is practical: what are therapists and clients supposed to do with the altered state? Ketamine gives the cleanest example in the excerpt. One guest describes a few possible benefits, from feeling better a couple of days later to becoming more psychologically flexible for maybe up to a week or so afterwards. That window matters because it can make acceptance and commitment therapy ideas easier to reach, especially for people stuck inside strong feelings. The phrase is half-joking. Ketamine is called "mindfulness in a bottle," not because it fixes everything, but because some clients can step back from emotions that usually overwhelm them. Nutt keeps asking for clarity. He wants listeners to understand that psychedelic therapy is not mainly about what happens during the trip. The useful work sits around it. The experience may loosen something, but later engagement decides whether that loosened state leads anywhere. The conversation stays grounded. Even when it sounds hopeful, it comes back to therapist skill, client struggle, and the limits of simply giving someone a drug. Training is the closing concern. Nutt suggests progress depends on many more skilled therapists learning to work in this area responsibly. The guests take that seriously. Their answer lands in a measured place: psychedelic psychotherapy may need unusual skills, but it still depends on good therapy.

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