The Dream · Little Everywhere

Introducing The Dream Plus! And A Short Oral History of The Dream...

September 8, 2025·33 min·2 clips

Jane Marie explains how anti-vax ads slipped into their vaccine episode due to AI ad targeting.

The episode opens with Jane Marie and her production partner Dan explaining that they are launching a five-dollar-a-month subscription plan via Supercast, which will give subscribers ad-free access to all episodes plus access to a community discussion board. Jane Marie expresses discomfort with asking for money directly, which she identifies as a personal barrier. Dan describes their two types of ad revenue: host-read ads they have vetted personally and dynamically inserted programmatic ads placed by AI based on keyword matching. He explains that programmatic ads are inserted regionally without the hosts' real-time awareness, meaning that listeners in different parts of the country hear different ads. Jane Marie describes two specific instances of misalignment: an episode about vaccine conspiracy theories that received anti-vax ads in some regions, and an episode featuring Charlotte Eisenberg describing her detention in a psychiatric ward for considering an abortion, which ran a crisis pregnancy center ad in her home region. Jane Marie says she did not sleep for days after learning about the second incident. The hosts then trace the full history of the company: they met while both working in public radio, began talking about building a better podcast studio, took an early Airbnb project to raise capital, built their studio in a building previously occupied by the Beastie Boys' record label Grand Royal, and eventually took on work-for-hire projects. When approached by Laura Mayer at Stitcher to produce The Dream, Jane Marie spontaneously pitched herself as host mid-conversation and was accepted. Stitcher gave them unusual editorial freedom during a period when podcasts were primarily viewed as IP incubators for film and TV. After a successful first season, the show's network funding declined each year as the podcasting industry went through ownership consolidation and upheaval. When facing the prospect of the show fading out under network ownership, they bought back the rights and went independent. Jane Marie argues that The Dream had real value to its network partners as a credibility signal — like Warner Brothers keeping critical darlings on its roster to attract more commercial artists — but that this value was not well understood by executives. The subscription is framed as a way to replace the uncontrollable ad income with money from people they trust, potentially allowing them to return to producing in-depth multi-episode investigative seasons rather than the more conversational format they have used in survival mode.

As heard by us

A candid origin story about creative freedom, shrinking margins, and a show trying to own its future.

The episode pairs a subscription plan launch with a clear-eyed look at how The Dream changed under Stitcher. Jane Marie and Dan revisit the early years, the room they were given, and the irritation of watching podcasting treated mostly as a path to film instead of something with…

Read the full review in PlayNext →

Why you'd press play

A candid origin story about The Dream, where a subscription launch and a fight for control become the point.

Read the full recommendation in PlayNext →

Listen to the show on

Apple Podcasts Spotify

Play clips from this episode More from The Dream