The Coldest Case in Laramie · Serial Productions & The New York Times

Episode 6

February 23, 2023·31 min·1 clip

Fred moves from “I didn’t do it” to “I don’t remember if I did anything.”

1. The Coldest Case in Laramie Episode 6 follows Robert Terry’s 2016 interrogation of Fred Lam about Shelly Wiley’s 1985 killing. 2. Robert Terry is the Laramie detective who reopened the case, and Fred Lam is the former cop whose DNA became important to the investigation. 3. The episode asks whether Terry can turn old blood evidence, boot prints, and a seven-hour interview into a provable case. 4. Terry had first interviewed Fred in 2009, then took a cheek swab that was not compared to the crime scene until 2015. 5. The lab eventually matched Fred’s DNA to blood found on the door of apartment number three. 6. Terry’s second interview with Fred took place on August 17, 2016, in a small interrogation room at the station. 7. The recording runs seven hours, two minutes, and 29 seconds, and Terry begins by advising Fred of his rights. 8. Terry questions Fred about his location on the morning of the murder, including where he parked and what he wore. 9. Fred says he was in National Guard gear and wearing Corfam jump boots, which Terry links to a bloody boot print. 10. Terry also has Fred reenact the blood on the door with a bottle of water and a prop door. 11. The strongest forensic point Terry uses is that blood on the door is not Shelly Wiley’s blood and matches Fred. 12. Terry tells Fred that the blood in the heel impression comes back to Shelly Wiley, while Fred keeps disputing the interpretation. 13. The interrogation also turns to blood in Shelly Wiley’s bedroom, which Terry says further places Fred inside the apartment. 14. Fred repeatedly says he was asleep in apartment number three and denies being inside Shelly’s house. 15. Near the middle of the interview, Fred shifts from saying he did not do it to saying he does not remember doing it. 16. Terry treats that wording change as significant and tells Fred that the evidence already points to him. 17. The episode’s tone is methodical and adversarial, with Terry using a calm, probing style and Fred alternating between cooperation and denial. 18. The narration also pauses to question how Terry’s affidavit quoted Fred, because the quotes can sound more incriminating when separated from the full exchange. 19. Listeners interested in true-crime interrogations and forensic evidence will get the most from this episode. 20. Listeners who want a fast, low-context recap of the broader case may skip it.

As heard by us

A sharp, uneasy look at the interrogation that made Fred Lam sound guilty, and how much the context changes.

Episode 6 digs into the interview that put Fred Lam back at the center of Shelly Wiley's case. Robert Terry walks him through blood marks, boot prints, and the morning at the crime scene, sometimes leaning on possibilities the file does not fully support.

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Why you'd press play

You get a cold case in Laramie where blood, boot prints, and a confession never line up cleanly.

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