Can Democracy Flourish in the 21st Century? With Laura Alonso

October 19, 2022·37 min·2 clips

Hugo Chávez won elections — and that's exactly why Alonso says liberal democracy needs protecting beyond the ballot box.

The episode opens with Alonso describing her 2009 decision to leave the NGO sector and run for Congress with a new liberal, non-populist party in Argentina, a move she calls one of the most important of her life. She explains that she felt constrained as a fundraiser rather than an activist and asked herself why she shouldn't be the one inside the system advocating for transparency. As an opposition member of Congress, none of her proposed laws passed during her first term, but she notes that when her party won the presidency, her earlier legislative work became the foundation for laws that were eventually enacted. The host frames the central question of the episode: can democracy flourish in the 21st century, given what researchers describe as an empirically documented democratic recession over the past 15 years. Alonso identifies civic disengagement as a primary root cause, arguing that citizens in strong democracies have effectively privatized their participation by delegating everything to politicians and failing to hold them accountable at the local level. She distinguishes between electoral democracy and liberal democracy, warning that the latter — which protects individual rights regardless of who holds power — is under serious threat. Using Venezuela as a case study, she describes how Hugo Chávez used elections as a vehicle to dismantle the judiciary, press, and civic space, turning a democracy into an autocracy. She argues that Latin America's experience over the past 40 years is a warning for other regions, as many countries have held regular elections while becoming increasingly illiberal. The conversation turns to practical remedies, with Alonso endorsing citizen assemblies as a method for re-engaging citizens who are alienated from polarized political discourse. She describes the model as randomly selecting citizens to form a microcosm of society, meeting regularly over several months, and being required to produce a concrete policy recommendation. The host references Jim Fishkin and Larry Diamond's 2019 America in One Room experiment in Texas as evidence that face-to-face deliberation can dramatically reduce polarization even on the most contentious issues. Alonso agrees and adds that human connection is essential to democracy, contrasting the depth of in-person conversation with the truncated nature of virtual interaction. Both speakers acknowledge that citizen assemblies face structural resistance from politicians whose incentive is re-election, not the expansion of citizen power. Alonso suggests that citizen assemblies should work in tandem with legislatures in a consultative role rather than replacing representative institutions. The discussion shifts to media, where Alonso argues that civil society should demand higher-quality political debate rather than relying primarily on regulation. She warns that regulating speech is a slippery slope, citing Venezuela, Russia, and China as examples of how state control of information can silence dissent. She delivers the line that she prefers the turmoil of lies under freedom because at least under freedom one can publicly identify a lie. The host raises the specific issue of social media algorithms, noting Alonso's own large Twitter following, and argues that algorithmic incentives are degrading the quality of public conversation. Alonso concedes that some regulation of social media platforms may be appropriate, drawing a parallel to how radio and television were regulated when they emerged, but insists that free speech must remain the hard limit. She closes by expressing hope grounded in human creativity, bravery, and the enduring desire for freedom, arguing that history gives reason to expect a new wave of democratic renewal even after the current counter-wave.

As heard by us

A practical conversation about democracy, participation, and the institutions citizens can still shape.

Alonso's conversation on The Big Picture treats democracy as a matter of institutions and participation, not abstraction. It follows her path from civil society activism into elected office, then back to anti-corruption work and the rule of law as everyday concerns.

Read the full review in PlayNext →

Why you'd press play

If you want a serious take on how democracy can still work for ordinary citizens in practice today.

Read the full recommendation in PlayNext →

Listen to the show on

Apple Podcasts Spotify

Play clips from this episode More from The Big Picture