The Axe Files with David Axelrod · The Institute of Politics & CNN Podcasts

Ep. 605 — Ambassador Rahm Emanuel

·1 hr 5 min·6 clips

Rahm Emanuel told the State Department: 'You have my resignation anytime you want' after clashing over bureaucracy.

This final episode of *The Axe Files* features host David Axelrod in conversation with his longtime friend, U.S. Ambassador to Japan Rahm Emanuel. Axelrod opens the episode by announcing this is the podcast's last installment after nine years and 605 episodes. He reflects that the show was designed as an antidote to coarse politics, focusing on personal stories from guests like John McCain, Sonia Sotomayor, and Cyrus Habib. Emanuel explains his unexpected transition from Chicago mayor and White House Chief of Staff to diplomat, noting that Larry Summers doubted he'd tolerate the role. He describes immediately breaking State Department norms by publicly confronting the Russian ambassador in Tokyo just weeks into his posting. Emanuel pushed back against bureaucratic delays, telling officials they could fire him but he wouldn't operate on "career fear." A key achievement was helping forge a trilateral security framework between the U.S., Japan, and South Korea. Emanuel argues this alliance is critical because China's strategy is to isolate countries while America's is to "isolate the isolator." He claims the trilateral arrangement makes China's goal of pushing the U.S. out of the Indo-Pacific harder, turning an "away game" for America into more of a "home game." The ambassador also posted uncensored, barbed social media critiques of China, calling out hypocrisy like China banning Japanese seafood while its own ships fished the same waters. On the Middle East, Emanuel sees a moment "rich with promise and peril" following the Gaza conflict, with Hamas and Hezbollah weakened and Iran vulnerable. He warns that Israel must avoid the "hubris" that followed its 1967 victory and instead pursue negotiated integration with regional partners. Regarding rising antisemitism, he argues a "permission slip" has been given for it to become explicit, but distinguishes between criticizing Israeli policy and antisemitic hate. Axelrod shares his personal conflict, feeling devastated by the October 7th attacks but also heartbroken by the children killed in Gaza. Emanuel agrees, stating the attacks don't give Israel a "permission slip" to violate its own ethical codes. In the final segment, Emanuel expresses frustration watching the 2024 U.S. election from abroad, believing it could have been won with a different campaign posture. The tone is a candid, reflective, and often humorous conversation between two seasoned political insiders with four decades of shared history. Listeners who appreciate nuanced foreign policy analysis, unfiltered diplomatic stories, and personal reflections on modern politics will find this compelling. Those seeking a highly structured interview or who are averse to insider political discourse might choose to skip.

As heard by us

A reflective farewell that keeps politics rooted in biography and lived experience.

David Axelrod uses a final hour to close nine years of conversation, and the show stays where it has always been strongest: on people and how they think, not politics as a scoreboard.

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Why you'd press play

You want a final, roomy political interview that still gets to the point.

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