Nine Years of Warning America: A Conversation with Rick Wilson

·57 min·5 clips

A Michigan man who voted for Obama twice explains why he now wants to 'burn it all down' with Trump.

The episode is a one-on-one interview between host Harry Litman and guest Rick Wilson, recorded before a live audience in San Diego. Wilson, a co-founder of the Lincoln Project, begins by describing his 2015 realization that Trump's character flaws were an asset to a faction of the Republican base. He shares a pivotal story from a focus group in Orlando, where a woman refused to believe facts about Trump's finances, illustrating deep-seated paranoia. Another focus group participant, a man from Michigan, explained his shift from Obama voter to Trump supporter due to economic devastation and a desire to 'burn it all down'. Wilson analyzes how both parties failed these voters. He details the Lincoln Project's three categories of ads: narrative setters, issue-based ads, and 'audience of one' ads designed to target Trump personally. Wilson describes an ad called 'Knives Out' that aims to increase Trump's paranoia about his team. He admits an earlier 'audience of one' ad may have contributed to the events of January 6th. The conversation shifts to political messaging in a 'post-truth' era, with Wilson arguing for emotional storytelling over policy-heavy appeals. He discusses the ad 'Daisy', aimed at Republican 'girl dads' and women on abortion rights. Wilson then plays and discusses the dystopian ad 'Aftermath', which outlines a potential second Trump term; he notes 38% of its speculative promises have already occurred. In a lightning round, Wilson names Theodore Roosevelt as his political hero and Texas as the next red state that might go blue. He concludes by framing the fight against Trumpism as America's next 'great work', necessary to preserve the republic's propositional ideals.

As heard by us

Rick Wilson traces Trump's appeal, a pre-January 6 ad, and the hard work of persuasion after shared facts collapse.

Rick Wilson frames Trumpism less as a surprise eruption than as a grim tactical discovery: Trump's toxic persona became useful to a faction of the Republican base.

Read the full review in PlayNext →

Why you'd press play

Want the tactical backstory behind Trump's appeal to part of the Republican base, and the strange power of an ad built for an audience of one?

Read the full recommendation in PlayNext →

Listen to the show on

Apple Podcasts Spotify

Play clips from this episode More from Talking Feds