Strategy Hour | Online Marketing for Business Growth · Abagail Pumphrey - Business Strategist

The Future of Search: SEO vs LLM Optimization with Sam Dunning

·40 min·2 clips

Sam's 'money keyword matrix' uses four columns to find long-tail terms like 'best LinkedIn agency for recruitment.'

1. Strategy Hour | Online Marketing for Business Growth frames this episode around the future of search, with SEO, AI search, and LLM optimization at the center. 2. Abigail Pumphrey hosts, and Sam Dunning joins as founder of Breaking B2B and host of the Breaking B2B podcast, which matters because he works directly on B2B SEO and lead generation. 3. The episode asks whether traditional SEO still matters when Google AI Overviews, ChatGPT, and other LLM-driven tools are changing how people search. 4. Sam says he started in a UK camera shop called Jessup's Camera Shop, moved into a web agency through his cousin, and learned SEO after doing sales, project management, wireframes, and customer support. 5. He says the agency eventually became too broad across small business, e-commerce, B2B, B2C, tech, and non-tech clients, which created lumpy cash flow. 6. He explains that SEO became the best inbound source for the web design company, which pushed him toward SEO as a service and later toward a B2B-only business. 7. Sam says not every company should do SEO, especially if the category is new, the offer is not well known, or the business lacks the resources for research, content, technical work, link building, and PR. 8. He contrasts SEO with channels like podcast, LinkedIn, email list, YouTube, and Reddit for companies that need to educate a market before people search for the product. 9. He says SEO works best as a demand-collection channel for the 5% of the market that is in buying mode and actively comparing vendors or specific solutions. 10. He defines the 'traffic trap' as traffic-heavy SEO that looks good in charts but produces little pipeline, few demos, and no qualified leads. 11. He says Google AI Overviews are wiping out a lot of informational queries like 'what is a CRM' or 'how to build a funnel' by giving answers above the fold. 12. He uses a B2B LinkedIn agency example to show the difference between a top-funnel query and a high-intent query such as 'best B2B LinkedIn agency' or 'best LinkedIn agency for recruitment.' 13. His money keyword matrix uses four columns: how prospects describe the offer, which industries the company serves best, which competitors come up in sales calls, and which jobs-to-be-done or pain points drive evaluation. 14. He says long-tail combinations often have low traffic but higher sales intent, and that Google search should be checked for whether it favors an article, landing page, comparison, or product listicle. 15. Sam predicts Google AI mode will become the default within the next year or two and that search will move further toward zero-click experiences. 16. He says visibility may matter more than clicks, because buyers may see five vendors in an AI summary and then go directly to a homepage later as direct traffic. 17. He says Google AI Overviews often pull results that already rank organically, while ChatGPT often relies heavily on Bing search and different ranking procedures. 18. He also says Reddit comments, YouTube videos, brand mentions, and listicle articles are showing up more often in LLM results for B2B companies. 19. The tone is practical and tactical, with Abigail pressing on implementation and Sam answering with frameworks, examples, and direct recommendations. 20. People running B2B marketing for tech or service companies will get the most value, while teams wanting quick traffic wins or broad consumer SEO may skip it.

As heard by us

A grounded SEO conversation about speed, intent, and what still matters as search changes.

Sam Dunning frames SEO as a practical test of where B2B teams can still win as search shifts under AI-powered discovery. As founder of Breaking B2B and host of the Breaking B2B podcast, he keeps attention on money keywords, the page type Google prefers, and the advantage of…

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You want a faster way to turn search into qualified leads.

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