Smart Agency Masterclass with Jason Swenk: Podcast for Digital Marketing Agencies · Jason Swenk

Why Project-Based Agencies Feel Profitable But Aren't Sustainable with Michael Boychuk | Ep #887

·34 min·2 clips

Wayne McClammy pushed Michael from making a top-five Super Bowl spot to making the number one spot.

Jason opens by promoting Elevate, his April event in Phoenix for agency owners who want to get out of the weeds and grow faster. Michael Boychuk joins as founder and creative director at DNA in Stone in Seattle. He shares how he started in small, strategic, very creative, driven shops before becoming an agency owner. From there, the conversation turns to the realities of agency ownership and the way project-based work can look profitable while still being hard to sustain over time. AI becomes a major thread in the discussion. Michael argues that agencies should stop treating AI like a single prompt or a novelty and start using it through a real operating brief. That means defining the ICP, who is not the ICP, the brand, what the agency stands for, what it believes, and the client’s biggest challenge. The goal is not to chase tools for the sake of it. The goal is to package the agency’s knowledge, data, and framework so AI extends the business instead of flattening it. Jason pushes on that idea from the operator side, and the conversation stays grounded in how teams actually work. The episode also lands on the human side of the AI shift. Michael and Jason acknowledge that the market is changing fast, that layoffs are happening, and that clients want this direction. At the same time, they both make the case that people still want to work with people. That tension gives the conversation its edge. It is not anti-technology, but it refuses the idea that software alone is the answer. The style stays conversational and direct. There are jokes, some blunt language, and a clear bias toward useful advice over polished theory. Michael keeps bringing the discussion back to competition, discipline, and the desire to build at the top of the market rather than drift in the middle. The result is a talk that feels like two agency operators trying to name the real problem without dressing it up. It is less about hype than about how to stay relevant, profitable, and hard to replace. The episode also has the familiar sponsor-read structure that frames the show, but the core conversation is about agency endurance. Jason uses the interview to surface what changes when AI becomes part of the day-to-day workflow instead of a side experiment. Michael’s perspective keeps the discussion practical. He is not pitching magic. He is talking about how to turn knowledge, process, and positioning into an advantage that compounds. There is a lot of emphasis on proprietary thinking. Both speakers suggest that agencies need to build their own systems and not just rent the same tools everyone else has. That idea threads through the whole conversation. If every agency has access to the same software, the difference has to come from the way the agency uses it, structures it, and ties it to client value. That is where the sustainability argument really lives. The emotional center of the episode is familiar to anyone who has run a service business. It is the tension between being busy and being built well. Jason and Michael do not treat that as an abstract leadership puzzle. They talk about it like people who have felt it in the bank account and in the calendar. That is why the conversation works. It gives agency owners language for a problem they already know. By the end, the episode settles into a simple but strong position. AI is coming, competition is relentless, and the agencies that win will not be the ones hiding from either reality. They will be the ones that make better decisions, build better systems, and keep the human part of the business visible.

As heard by us

A practical agency conversation about using AI well, keeping the human edge, and building a more durable business.

Michael Boychuk argues for a more deliberate way of using AI in agencies, starting with an operating brief that pins down role, ICP, brand, beliefs, and client pain points.

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Why you'd press play

If your agency looks busy but the growth plan still feels fuzzy, start here.

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