Smart Agency Masterclass with Jason Swenk: Podcast for Digital Marketing Agencies · Jason Swenk

How Forward-Thinking Agencies Win with SEO, GEO, & LLMs with Terry Zelen | Ep #886

·28 min·1 clip

Terry built a "consensus engine" in n8n that forces two LLMs to agree before output survives.

Jason opens the show with a live promo for Elevate, a Phoenix event for agency owners who want to share what's working, get honest about what's not, and scale faster. Terry Zelen joins from Tampa and introduces Zelen Communications as a long-running digital-forward agency. The conversation then moves from agency history into search and AI. Terry and Jason treat SEO and LLMs as overlapping forces rather than tidy separate lanes. They keep returning to the question of how agencies should adapt when discovery happens in new places. Terry describes the challenge of building something that models will keep referring to over time. He shares a story about a team member who found his firm through an LLM even though the agency had not deliberately optimized for that result. Jason leans into the surprise of that kind of referral. They take it as evidence that the game is already changing. From there the discussion turns to agency offers. Terry argues that SEO agencies should think about what can be bolted on for clients. Jason follows the revenue angle and the way agencies can package new services without losing their identity. The two reference an example of an agency adding AI-related work and growing revenue. They also admit that nobody has this fully nailed down yet. The pace of change comes up again and again. Terry notes that a tool built today may not matter tomorrow. Jason agrees that evergreen tactics are harder to trust when the models themselves keep shifting. That leads to a wider warning about quick hacks and real-world tactics. They say it is hard to get too attached to any one method because it could be outdated almost immediately. The conversation also reaches back to old-school black-hat SEO as a reminder that search has always had its odd phase. Terry and Jason share a laugh about tactics like white text on a white background. The joke lands because the underlying point is serious: the rules of visibility have always changed, just not this fast. Near the end, Terry explains that agencies need structure in the code if they want something to actually work. The episode closes with Jason thanking Terry for the practical take and steering back to the show's standard send-off.

As heard by us

A grounded agency discussion about AI search, client offers, and what still holds up as the market keeps shifting.

Terry Zelen and Jason Swank spend the episode on a practical agency problem: how to stay useful while AI discovery keeps changing the rules. The strongest parts are the ones that get specific about bolt-on services, client value, and the awkward fact that agencies can show up in…

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Why you'd press play

You want a blunt read on how agencies are thinking about SEO, AI search, and LLM referrals.

Read the full recommendation in PlayNext →

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