Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas · Sean Carroll

Kevin Zollman on Game Theory, Signals, and Meaning

December 1, 2025·1 hr 18 min·5 clips
Game theory studies social interaction across the entire biological kingdom, from humans down to single-celled organisms.
Sean Carroll interviews philosopher Kevin Zollman about game theory, exploring its mathematical foundations and wide-ranging applications. They discuss classic games like the ultimatum game and prisoner's dilemma, how game theory models animal behavior and evolution, and its potential to explain the origins of meaning and language. The conversation also touches on scientific misinformation and Zollman's book on parenting.

As heard by us

Game theory maps ordinary interactions, then tests them against repeated play and messy real life.

It opens with the everyday sense that an interaction can go well or badly, then broadens that idea across animals, plants, genes, companies, and countries. From there, it turns to the prisoner's dilemma and the repeated-play wrinkle that makes tit for tat worth taking seriously.

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Why you'd press play

If you like games where the rules sound simple but the incentives get stubborn fast, this is your hour.

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