Señors at Scale - Software Engineering & Tech Leadership · Dan Neciu

State Management at Scale with Daishi Kato (Author of Zustand)

·35 min·2 clips

Zustand is a global store, Jotai is functions, and Valtio is JavaScript objects.

State takes a few different forms in this conversation. Daishi describes Zustand as a global store, Jotai as state defined through functions, and Valtio as plain JavaScript objects with proxy behavior. Those differences are not cosmetic. The discussion keeps circling back to mental models: where each library feels natural, and where it starts fighting the developer. Zustand sounds intentionally spare. Daishi says the project basically does not accept new features, which makes its small size feel like a maintenance choice rather than branding. Valtio asks more of the user. You have to be okay seeing and thinking in proxies, and if that model feels annoying, Valtio probably is not the right fit. The MobX comparison stays practical. Valtio uses a hook-based API, and its exposed proxy behavior changes how updates feel in day-to-day React code. Then Waku comes in. Daishi explains that once the three state libraries had mostly settled down, he wanted something new to work on. React Server Components were hard enough to be interesting, so Waku began as a personal way to learn the area and test how state libraries might interact with it. The experiment gradually got more serious. Someone saw potential, and Daishi began treating Waku as a fourth project worth real time. He is clear that Waku is not trying to replace Next.js. It needs to live beside it and find a smaller place in the JavaScript world where it makes sense. The pitch stays modest: general-purpose React Server Components, easiest to explain through small to medium web apps and static sites. The client-server line keeps coming up too, especially when Daishi says Jotai's abstraction can work on both sides. By the end, the episode has moved from state tools into framework scope, with SICP and Scheme adding a quick glimpse of Daishi's programming roots.

As heard by us

A grounded look at state models, proxies, and where Waku fits beside Next.js.

Daishi Kato keeps the discussion on a practical problem: how to avoid extra re-renders without teaching developers the wrong mental model. He draws a clear line between Zustand, Jotai, and Valtio, treating them as different ways to think about state rather than as items in a…

Read the full review in PlayNext →

Why you'd press play

Hear Daishi Kato compare Zustand, Jotai, Valtio, and where Waku fits next.

Read the full recommendation in PlayNext →

Listen to the show on

Apple Podcasts Spotify

Play clips from this episode More from Señors at Scale - Software Engineering & Tech Leadership