RevDem Podcast · Review of Democracy

A Turning Point in American Politics? The Rise of Democratic Socialists of America and Zohran Mamdani

·37 min·3 clips

Fabian Holt saw entire music scenes vanish due to gentrification, sparking his turn to political organizing.

This episode of the RevDem Podcast features an interview with Fabian Holt, an associate professor and author of "Organize or Burn! How New York Socialists Fight for Climate Survival." Holt discusses the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) in New York City, a movement that gained prominence after Zoran Mamdani's mayoral primary victory in 2025. His research pivots from studying commercialized music scenes to analyzing this political movement, interpreting it as a collective alternative to neoliberal capitalism and authoritarianism. Holt's fieldwork began after an encounter with grassroots volunteers in Flatbush in 2021, which helped him articulate his existing frustrations with neoliberal cultural policy and climate inaction. He applies European "movement party" theory to the U.S. context, examining how the DSA operates as a hybrid organization within the two-party system. The book focuses on the New York City DSA chapter, which has approximately 11,000 members and successfully elected its candidate as mayor. A central tension explored is how a movement holds a candidate accountable once they enter institutional government, like the mayoralty. Holt argues that while protest tactics are important, long-term organizational capacity is essential to achieve legislative climate action. He critiques a "movement-centric" perspective in climate literature, advocating for a focus on building bridges between movements and political institutions. Ethnographic firsthand experience was crucial for Holt to understand the DSA's oral, practice-based culture, which he found surprisingly well-managed and focused. He was particularly surprised to learn the DSA was running six electoral campaigns on a climate platform in 2022, before other geopolitical issues dominated the agenda. The title "Organize or Burn" presents a choice, arguing the world is already burning, as evidenced by climate-related deaths and events like fatal floods in Kentucky. Holt observes that active DSA climate organizers exhibit more hope and energy, countering broader societal "climate apathy." He analyzes how "socialism" remains a stigmatized, Cold War-era label in the U.S., often used pejoratively by figures like Donald Trump. For DSA members, democratic socialism means demands for economic equality and social democratic policies like healthcare and housing, which Holt notes many Europeans take for granted. While the DSA model is shaped by the New York metropolis, Holt believes its organizational approach of movement-party collaboration can be replicated elsewhere. In a final chapter, he calls for academics to produce knowledge that actively helps address societal crises through closer collaboration with grassroots organizers. The tone is analytical and educational, grounded in sociological and political theory. The style is a structured interview, with the host prompting deep dives into the book's methodology and key arguments. Listeners interested in leftist political strategy, climate movement organizing, and urban sociology will find this episode compelling. Those seeking a debate format or a critique of the DSA's policies might find the perspective too sympathetic.

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