Religious Socialism Podcast · DSA Religion and Socialism Commission

Radical Theological Education | Tim Conder & Daniel Rhodes

·1 hr 10 min·5 clips

When white clergy asked Bank of America executives for theological advice on predatory lending, it revealed the church's capitulation to capitalism.

This episode of the Religious Socialism Podcast, *Heart of a Heartless World*, features host Ralph in conversation with Tim Conder and Daniel Rhodes from the Black Mountain School of Theology and Community. They explore the failures of market-driven theological education and advocate for a democratized, community-based model. The discussion draws inspiration from the radical legacy of the historical Black Mountain College, founded in 1933 by John Andrew Rice after he left Rollins College. The college was notable for its democratic pedagogy, deep integration of the arts led by figures like Josef and Anni Albers, and its early racial integration in the American South in 1944 with student Alma Stone Williams. Conder and Rhodes argue that contemporary seminaries and mainline Protestant churches are in crisis, having lost a sense of purpose and become overly professionalized and market-oriented. They describe a landscape where churches either function as a comforting "opiate" within capitalism or are confused "market losers" facing demographic and financial decline. The guests cite their work with 30-35 congregations through a Lilly Endowment grant, employing "theological action research" to help communities analyze social forces like atomization and predatory lending. A pivotal story involves their "10% is Enough" organizing campaign against predatory lenders like Bank of America and Wells Fargo in North Carolina, which revealed how affluent congregations deferred to financial "experts" within their pews rather than theological or community-based analysis. They reference scholar Juan Carrillo's concept of "unhomeliness," where academia extracts individuals from their home cultures without fully integrating them, mirroring a broader "geographical brain drain." The conversation also touches on works by theorists like Arjun Appadurai on "the right to research" and David Harvey on capitalism's imperial and extractive nature, applying these ideas to educational capital. An insightful moment compares this extraction to how dual-language elementary schools can turn Spanish into a "market asset" for privileged students, as researched by scholar Claudia Cervantes-Soon. The tone is conversational, educational, and passionately critical, blending personal organizing anecdotes with theoretical analysis from cultural studies and political theology. Listeners interested in radical pedagogy, community organizing, and critiques of neoliberal academia will find this episode compelling. Those seeking a debate on traditional seminary models or a purely historical account of Black Mountain College might find the focus too specific to the guests' activist-theological project.

As heard by us

A steady case for theological education that answers to communities, not markets.

Heart of a Heartless World uses its conversation with Tim Condor and Daniel Rhodes of the Black Mountain School of Theology and Community to make a clear case for theological education that answers to real communities instead of market pressures.

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Why you'd press play

You want theology that takes on markets, debt, and organizing with receipts.

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