Relationship Advice · Thrive Therapy - Colter Bloxom, Lauren Mokarry, and Cayla Bozovich

How To Dismantle Shame

·52 min·4 clips

Colter reveals how a second grader's comment in first grade taught him the painful experience of shame.

This episode of Relationship Advice focuses on understanding and dismantling shame in personal relationships. Hosts Mark, Lauren Mokeri, and Kayla Bozovich, all licensed professional counselors, explore the emotion's origins and impacts. They define shame as a relational emotion tied to the fear of disconnection and a sense of being fundamentally flawed. The hosts share personal childhood memories where shame first emerged, such as Mark being teased for a plain script and Kayla being called "Dumbo" for her ears. They reference researcher Brené Brown's work, defining shame as the fear of disconnection and distinguishing it from guilt, which concerns behavior rather than identity. The discussion covers how shame develops from early conditioning in families, schools, or peer groups when love or acceptance feels conditional. Dan Siegel's framework of motivational pathways—agency, bonding, and certainty—is introduced to explain why different people experience shame in different contexts. A key insight is that shame often manifests defensively in relationships, not as overt self-criticism but as defensiveness, passive-aggression, or over-explaining. The hosts note that shame can lead to isolation, surface-level intimacy, or a "false self" as protective masks. They describe the bodily sensation of shame as a severe embarrassment or a feeling of being caught and needing to hide. The episode debates whether shame is a universal human emotion, with Brené Brown cited as claiming it is, except for individuals lacking capacity for empathy. The tone is conversational and educational, blending personal anecdotes with therapeutic concepts in a supportive, peer-like dialogue. Listeners interested in psychology, self-improvement, or navigating relational challenges would find this episode valuable. Those seeking highly structured, clinical advice or disinterested in introspective emotional work might prefer to skip it.

As heard by us

Shame gets tied to certainty-seeking, then carried into relationship doubt and reassurance loops.

The episode treats shame less like a private flaw and more like the need to know things for sure. The speakers connect OCD and anxiety to the shame that shows up when someone feels they should have been ready, should have had a plan, or should have known better.

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Why you'd press play

If certainty keeps slipping through your hands, this meets you in the loop.

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