Russia's war with Ukraine — and reality

·33 min·3 clips

How does Putin's war in Ukraine look through the eyes of average Russian citizens who will suffer from it?

The episode begins with host Sean Elling framing the central question of how Putin sells the war in Ukraine to Russians who will suffer from it. He introduces guest Peter Pomerantsev, a disinformation scholar and author of 'This Is Not Propaganda'. Pomerantsev describes Putin's evolution from using strategic ambiguity in propaganda to a more direct 'mad dictator mode' focused on 'propaganda of the deed'. He explains that Russian propaganda is not designed to persuade but to confuse and disorient, fostering cynicism that makes people reliant on autocratic leadership. Pomerantsev delves into the psychological aspects, noting Putin's use of humiliation, as seen in his war announcement where he publicly embarrassed his cabinet. He compares this to historical authoritarian tactics, such as forcing absurd claims to demonstrate power. The discussion explores how this approach exports globally, influencing figures like Trump and Steve Bannon. Pomerantsev highlights the role of eastern Ukraine as 'ground zero' for information warfare, where conflicting narratives create chaos and conspiratorial thinking. He addresses whether Ukrainian President Zelensky's direct appeals to Russians can break through Putin's propaganda bubble, noting some Russian celebrities are speaking out against the war. The conversation shifts to the potential for sanctions to undermine Putin, with Pomerantsev advocating for stronger measures like oil embargoes and a paradigm shift in viewing Russia as an adversary engaged in economic warfare. He critiques Western media for framing coverage around Kyiv's imminent fall, which may inadvertently aid Putin's narrative. The episode concludes with Elling thanking Pomerantsev for his insights during a difficult time.

As heard by us

A sharp look at how reality-bending narratives can make war legible to people living under them.

Russia's war in Ukraine is framed as a crisis of public reality: how an average Russian citizen might take in claims that Ukraine is run by Nazis and drug addicts, is developing nuclear weapons with America, or is exterminating Russians in the east, even as uncertainty and…

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You want to understand how a war gets sold when even one of the concrete missile claims in the story points to missiles that are not there.

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