Podcast 694 – The Art of Dying

·53 min·5 clips

Ram Dass describes taking LSD while standing among burning corpses in Benares to confront the fear of death.

The episode opens with Lorenzo introducing a recording from the 1992 Transpersonal Association Conference. The first talk is by Ram Dass, who begins by humorously recounting his academic journey, including being rejected from Harvard due to Timothy Leary's legacy and later becoming chair at the Kennedy School of Government. He discusses his work on regulatory aspects of Schedule I drugs and funding MDMA research. Ram Dass then delves into his personal experiences with psychedelics, noting parallels between LSD trips and descriptions in the Tibetan Book of the Dead. He describes how repetitive psychedelic use altered his feelings about death, reducing anxiety. He shares an anecdote about a nurse with cancer who, after an LSD experience, said, 'I know I'm dying of this disease, but look at the beauty of the universe.' Ram Dass explains his shift toward working with dying people as a spiritual practice, influenced by his time in India where he witnessed open attitudes toward death, including taking LSD at the burning ghats in Benares. He recounts a detailed story of sitting with Ginny Pfeiffer, a woman dying of pelvic cancer, who experienced profound peace despite physical pain. Ram Dass discusses the importance of being fully present with people during psychedelic experiences or dying processes, emphasizing moral commitments and avoiding isolation. He shares another story about his stepmother's death, where her surrender led to a radiant, joyful emergence. Ram Dass concludes by critiquing controlled psychedelic experiments and encouraging a focus on the psychological environment. The second talk is by Dr. Kenneth Ring, a researcher on near-death experiences (NDEs). He outlines three universal aspects of NDEs: overwhelming peace, loss of fear of death, and belief in an afterlife. Ring connects these to psychedelic experiences, citing studies like the Spring Grove experiments with LSD for terminally ill patients. He mentions that people have reported MDMA-induced feelings of love similar to NDEs and discusses ketamine's potential for inducing disembodied states. Ring offers his research instruments, such as the Life Changes Inventory, for studying transcendental experiences. Lorenzo then provides commentary, revealing that Marilyn Ferguson had personal MDMA experience and praising Rick Doblin's work. He reflects on Ram Dass's story about taking acid among burning corpses, suggesting it might be a perfect way to overcome fear of death. Lorenzo shares his own transformative ketamine experience in Palenque that permanently changed his attitude toward dying, encouraging listeners to work on their fears with support.

As heard by us

A reflective meditation on dying, pain, and the mind's effort to stay open.

Death is treated as a practice of attention, beginning with Lorenzo's return to the 1992 Transpersonal Association Conference and settling into Ram Dass's reflections on staying open beside someone in pain.

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Why you'd press play

You want a death conversation that moves from a brutal LSD challenge to Ram Dass being with his stepmother as she was dying.

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