Pots & Trowels The Gardening Podcast · Martin Fish, Jill Fish, Sean Riley

Moisture Probes, Apple Pruning, Terracotta vs Plastic & Urban Green Spaces with The Cloud Gardener

·37 min·1 clip

My lived experience showing what's accessible became my competitive advantage.

This episode of Pots & Trowels features hosts Martin and Jill interviewing Jason Williams, known as The Cloud Gardener, about his unconventional horticultural journey. The conversation covers his rapid rise from a lockdown novice to an influential urban gardening advocate. The hosts also answer listener questions on practical gardening topics. Jason began gardening in 2020 on his balcony during lockdown, documenting his experiments on YouTube. His first video was about growing bare-root lupins from Wilko, and he gained attention by observing details like marigold leaves curling in the wind. He designed a garden for the RHS Chelsea Flower Show just a few years after starting, focusing on accessibility for renters with limited resources. At a horticulture careers event, Jason emphasized the importance of meeting students and community gardeners to drive systemic change in urban greening. He traveled on a Churchill Fellowship to study urban greening in Milan, Barcelona, China, and Singapore. Jason was particularly impressed by Singapore's pre-planned, government-led approach where community consultation directly informs development. He contrasted this with UK challenges, noting developers often see green spaces as lost profit from extra flats. A surprising insight was that the Battersea Power Station developers, who are Malaysian, found London's planning rules unusual compared to Singapore's standard integration of green space. Jason believes his lack of traditional gardening knowledge allowed him to break rules and share a unique, niche perspective. He argues that while the mental health benefits of green space are clear, they lack a direct financial return on investment for UK developers. The hosts discuss a listener's question about pruning a "monster" Bramley apple tree, explaining that hard pruning encourages vertical "water shoots" that need summer thinning. Another listener, Pauline, recommends using a moisture probe for potted plants in winter, to which Martin adds the finger-test method. Martin's seasonal jobs include organizing the tool shed, sanding and oiling wooden handles with linseed oil, and protecting container plants from frost using pot feet and insulation. He notes terracotta pots can crack in freeze-thaw cycles, while plastic is more durable. The episode ends with a tip to recycle Christmas trees into woodchip mulch or insect habitat logs. The tone is conversational, friendly, and educational, blending interview segments with practical listener Q&A. This episode is ideal for beginner gardeners inspired by unconventional success stories and those interested in urban greening policy and practical winter container care. Listeners seeking highly technical, scientific horticulture or purely ornamental gardening might find it less relevant.

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