Kill Them All

December 4, 2025·1 hr 13 min·7 clips

Why killing survivors clinging to wreckage is a war crime that even the Trump administration can't defend.

This episode of the Political Gabfest, titled "Kill Them All," is hosted by David Plotz, Emily Bazelon, and John Dickerson. They analyze a controversial military strike and its political fallout, a surprising special election result, and the safety data for autonomous vehicles. The hosts examine a Washington Post report that Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth ordered a military operation to kill everyone on a boat allegedly carrying drugs in the Caribbean. They detail that a second strike killed two survivors clinging to wreckage, an act military law experts call a potential war crime. Emily Bazelon notes the larger issue is the legality of the entire campaign, which has killed 83 people without a declared war or congressional authorization. John Dickerson points out the specific prohibition against attacking shipwrecked persons makes this case uniquely clear-cut compared to the fuzzy legal justifications for the broader operation. The discussion references columnist George Will calling it a war crime and National Review's Andrew McCarthy questioning the legal basis for defining drug trafficking as a terrorist act. Hosts explore the chain of command, with Hegseth denying he gave the direct order for the second strike, potentially placing blame on Admiral Wesley Bradley. They contrast this incident with subsequent operations where survivors were repatriated instead of killed. A key insight is the contradiction in the administration's response, as officials who typically celebrate "lethality" are now distancing themselves from this specific killing. The hosts suggest the remote, video-game-like nature of drone and aerial warfare creates a moral distance that makes such acts more palatable to the public and command structure. They also discuss how President Trump's history of high-profile pardons could signal potential protectors within the chain of command to take the fall. The conversation shifts to a Tennessee special House election where Republican Matt Van Epps won by nine points, yet Democrats are optimistic. Analysis shows the Democratic candidate, Afton Ben, still shifted the district 13 points leftward despite her controversial past statements, including calling for defunding police. John Dickerson argues this signals strong national momentum for Democrats, crucial for flipping the few seats needed to retake the House. The hosts debate candidate quality, pondering whether a charismatic progressive or a boring centrist is more effective in swing districts. Finally, the episode reviews a New York Times op-ed by surgeon Jonathan Slotkin citing Waymo data showing self-driving cars are involved in 91% fewer serious injury crashes than human drivers. The hosts express general openness to the technology, noting its potential to save lives and reduce the trillion-dollar annual economic toll of crashes. The tone is conversational and analytical, blending legal scrutiny, political strategy, and policy discussion with the hosts' characteristic rapport and occasional humor. Listeners interested in deep dives into contemporary political scandals, electoral strategy, and emerging technology will find this episode engaging. Those seeking light entertainment or unanimous political agreement might find the detailed legal and electoral analysis less compelling.

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A grounded midterm-strategy discussion about charisma, district fit, party risk, and the force of presidential drag.

Political Gabfest opens with its familiar host banter before moving into a practical campaign question: when a party is choosing candidates, is it better to favor charisma and fit with the district, even if the candidate has said reckless things, or to pick a safer figure whose…

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When charisma is tempting, but fit and a bad presidential approval rating may matter more.

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