PEN America Works of Justice · PEN America Prison and Justice Writing

Derecka Purnell on the Necessary Unlearning of Policing

·32 min·3 clips

Derecka Purnell explains why police and prisons are inadequate responses to harm in society.

This PEN America Works of Justice episode features a conversation between postgraduate fellow Sophia Ramirez and human rights lawyer, writer, and organizer Derecka Purnell. Purnell is the author of "Becoming Abolitionists: Police, Protests, and the Pursuit of Freedom," which details her personal journey toward abolitionist politics. The discussion centers on the philosophy of abolition and the process of unlearning societal beliefs about policing and safety. Purnell explains that abolitionist organizers view police, prisons, prosecutors, and surveillance as inadequate and harmful responses to societal problems. She describes her own initial skepticism toward abolition, rooted in her personal experiences with violence and a desire for safety. The conversation traces her intellectual evolution through events like the Ferguson uprising and her legal education. Purnell emphasizes that abolition is not just about dismantling systems but about building new community structures for health, housing, and conflict resolution. A key insight is that the demand for police often stems from a society's failure to provide essential resources like mental healthcare or economic security. Purnell argues that people are often taught to see policing as the only solution to harm, which requires a conscious process of "unlearning." She posits that true safety comes from social solidarity and meeting people's material needs, not from punitive institutions. The episode presents abolition as a creative and practical project of building a world where communities can prevent and address harm without coercion. The tone is educational and reflective, structured as an intimate dialogue between an interviewer and a thinker explaining her foundational text. The style is conversational but intellectually rigorous, blending personal narrative with political theory. Listeners interested in social justice movements, critiques of the criminal legal system, and transformative political philosophy would find this episode compelling. Those seeking debates about incremental police reform or who are firmly opposed to abolitionist frameworks might find its perspectives less aligned with their views.

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