Military History Club Podcast · Saul David

Larisa Brown on 'The Gardener of Lashkar Gah'

·24 min

The conversation starts with a public failure. Brown describes Afghan former employees of the British left in danger after the Western withdrawal from Afghanistan in late August 2021, then narrows the story to Shaista Gull. David frames him as the so-called Gardener of Lashkar-Gar, a man who worked for the British from 2008 to 2014. Even the pronunciation of his name gets a moment, which gives the opening a more careful, human feel before the harder questions arrive. Brown came to the story through campaigning. She says she had spent many years pushing the government to bring Afghan interpreters to the UK. It was not one clean campaign with one hero. Veterans, politicians, interpreters already in Britain, journalists, and people turning up at court cases all had a hand in it. The danger was personal, not theoretical. Brown and David discuss a family member whose life was at risk, including an attempted assassination that left him disabled. He later spent time in prison after his father reached the UK, and Brown says he is still struggling; she also says he has made it to Britain. David pushes the moral contrast. There are bad actors in the story, he says, but he wants Brown to name the people who tried to force better outcomes. Brown answers with both institutions and people. She places the campaign from 2015 onward, first through the Daily Mail and then through the Times after she moved there. David Williams remains in the story, with Brown crediting her Daily Mail colleague for keeping that work going while she carried similar pressure into her defence editor role. Charlie Herbert comes in as a senior British officer from the later years of Britain's involvement in Afghanistan. The episode stays close to responsibility: government action, press pressure, military obligation, and the people left exposed. It ends on a smaller note, with David asking whether Brown will write another book, and Brown saying this first one arrived alongside twins and a wildly hectic year.

As heard by us

A focused, human account of Shaista Gull and the campaign to protect Afghans who worked for Britain.

Larissa Brown's account of The Gardener of Lashkar-Gar opens on the human cost of the Western withdrawal from Afghanistan in late August 2021, when Afghan former employees of the British, including Shaista Gull, were left exposed to the Taliban.

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Why you'd press play

You will hear how Shaista Gull's story opens onto the Afghans who worked for the British and were left exposed after the August 2021 withdrawal.

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