Military and Defence Policy Archives - KDA Keeping Democracy Alive Podcast & Radio Show · Burt Cohen

Outsourcing War: Making Atrocities Invisible By The Wagner Group

January 31, 2023·1 hr·5 clips

The Wagner Group is named after Hitler's favorite composer, Richard Wagner, by its founder Dmitry Utkin.

This episode examines the historical and modern use of private military contractors, or mercenaries, to wage war. Host Bert Cohen interviews returning guest Dr. Lawrence Wittner, a professor emeritus of history at SUNY Albany. Dr. Wittner recently wrote an essay on the History News Network about privatized warfare. The discussion traces mercenary use back to ancient Egypt, where Pharaoh Ramses II employed 11,000 mercenaries in the 13th century B.C. It covers the Hessian troops hired by the British during the American Revolution and the idealistic American volunteers in the Spanish Civil War. The conversation details the modern private security firm Blackwater, noting its role in the U.S. War on Terror and a 2007 massacre of 17 Iraqi civilians in Baghdad's Nisour Square. The episode focuses extensively on the Russian Wagner Group, a private military company founded around 2014 by Dmitry Utkin and linked to oligarch Yevgeny Prigozhin. Wagner has operated in Ukraine's Donbas region since 2014, where its fighters were called "little green men," and it employs up to 10,000 personnel. Dr. Wittner explains that outsourcing to groups like Wagner provides governments with plausible deniability and a way to avoid political fallout for military actions. Wagner operatives exist in a "legal vacuum," facing no official consequences for their conduct. In Syria, Wagner fighters were filmed using a sledgehammer to torture a Syrian army deserter. UN investigators found Wagner forces tortured, raped, and looted in the Central African Republic. In Mali, Wagner mercenaries and local soldiers killed an estimated 300-400 civilians in the town of Mura in March 2022. Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov later acknowledged Wagner was in Mali "on a commercial basis" providing security services. A surprising claim is that the Wagner Group's name originates from founder Utkin's admiration for Adolf Hitler and Hitler's favorite composer, Richard Wagner. The episode reveals that despite a 1989 UN convention banning mercenaries, such groups continue to thrive with impunity. Dr. Wittner argues that the core problem is international anarchy and the unwillingness of nations to empower institutions like the United Nations to enforce peace. The tone is conversational and educational, blending historical analysis with investigation into contemporary conflicts. The style is direct and often grim, detailing atrocities without sensationalism. Listeners interested in military history, covert operations, and the blurred lines between state and private violence will find this episode compelling. Those seeking a light discussion or optimistic solutions to global conflict may find the subject matter too distressing.

As heard by us

A measured look at how private military force can turn war's stated aims against itself.

Outsourcing War looks at private military force and its influence on public policy, beginning with Dwight Eisenhower's warning about the military-industrial complex and moving into the steady profits and large budgets that support modern military operations.

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Why you'd press play

You want to hear private force treated as a public problem: Blackwater, soldiers of fortune, and the wars that keep paying.

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