Talking HR, Culture, and Work in 2026

·46 min·4 clips

The 'rocks and fence' analogy shows why some see equity as unfair, ignoring the invisible barriers others face.

["The episode opens with host Zach introducing Celeste Warren, a former executive at a global pharmaceutical company who pivoted to consulting and writing.", "Celeste details her planned exit from Merck, which involved three to four years of preparation, including forming an LLC and writing a book to bridge her transition.", "She explains that her first book focused on diversity and inclusion, while her new book, 'The Truth About Equity,' addresses equity more directly in the current climate.", "Celeste describes the challenges of entrepreneurship, such as navigating scam artists and learning to select the right collaborators after leaving corporate.", "Zach relates to the creative liberation of working independently, contrasting it with the bureaucracy of large, established organizations.", "The discussion shifts to equity, with Celeste introducing the 'rocks and fence' analogy, where rocks represent short-term equity acts and the fence symbolizes long-term systemic isms like racism and sexism.", "She emphasizes that those with privilege often don't see the fence, leading to misunderstandings about equity efforts.", "Zach probes whether DEI work inherently challenges capitalism and white power structures, noting that effective DEI would reimagine systems and power distribution.", "Celeste agrees, stating that real DEI work involves overhauling institutional infrastructures, which is the 'fence' that needs dismantling.", "She argues that demographic shifts, such as the growing majority of people of color globally and in the U.S., will naturally change power dynamics.", "However, Celeste cautions that changing demographics alone isn't enough without dismantling systemic isms, as power can corrupt regardless of who holds it.", "From a business perspective, she asserts that DEI is integrated into understanding customers and markets, making it essential for survival and growth.", "Zach adds that future DEI practitioners must connect principles to operations, impacting product strategy, market engagement, and revenue.", "The conversation turns to the future of work, focusing on Gen Z and Alpha, who prioritize values, mental well-being, and individual recognition over traditional office politics.", "Celeste stresses that managers will need strong one-on-one relationships and cultural competency to retain this workforce.", "She notes that frequent manager-team interactions boost productivity, supported by internal company studies.", "Zach highlights how younger workers are disillusioned by economic turmoil and demand authenticity from employers.", "Celeste mentions a colleague's observation that anti-DEI efforts aim to slow demographic changes, but she sees this as inevitable due to trends like interracial dating.", "She references Dr. Ruja Benjamin's point that mere representation of marginalized groups in high places isn't sufficient without systemic change.", "The episode concludes with Celeste sharing her website, CRWdiversity.com, for booking talks, purchasing her book, and accessing new equity training modules for managers."]

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A career pivot opens into a clear-eyed conversation about DEI, power, and workplace outcomes.

Living Corporate centers a career pivot in a workplace conversation about HR, culture, and work, bringing Celeste Warren into a discussion of moving from a senior executive role at a global pharmaceutical company into authorship and consulting.

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Press play when you want a workplace conversation that follows Celeste Warren's pivot from senior executive at a global pharmaceutical company into authorship and consulting.

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