Why did 72 million Americans vote for a man whose program is to destroy the pillars of American power since 1945?
The episode is a structured dialogue between two guests with recent books on U.S.-Europe relations. Host Philippe Meyer introduces Nicole Niesotto, vice president of the Jacques Delors Institute, and Richard Verli, a Swiss journalist. Niesotto's book 'Fractures in the West' examines why 72 million Americans voted for Trump, tracing protectionist and conservative trends back to the Tea Party era. She argues the real Trumpian revolution is against democracy, citing ideologues like Peter Thiel. Verli's book 'This America that hates us' is based on a three-month U.S. road trip during Trump's campaign. He describes encountering MAGA supporters and identifies a 'choleric nationalism' fueled by resentment and anger. Verli notes that Americans see Europe as weak, Islamized, and not self-asserting. Both guests discuss European responses: Niesotto outlines 'mollusc' submission versus 'Mohican' resistance, while Verli criticizes European bureaucracy for stifling freedom. They explore historical French anti-Americanism rooted in de Gaulle's skepticism. The dialogue covers corruption in Trump's America, the role of tech billionaires, and European dependence on U.S. defense despite Trump's threats to NATO. Niesotto calls for indulgence as Europeans must reverse eight decades of policy in three years, but also exigency to stop deluding themselves. Verli argues European elites are outdated and need generational renewal. They debate whether a smaller, more flexible 'Europe of five' (France, Germany, Poland, Italy, Spain) could provide leadership. The episode concludes with Verli warning of an alliance between an America that hates Europe and a Europe that hates itself.
