Late Night Live — Full program podcast · ABC Australia

A review of the Pacific labour scheme in Australia, and rethinking the gay rights movement

·54 min·3 clips

PALM workers lose 35% of their superannuation when they leave Australia.

1. Late Night Live pairs a discussion of the Pacific Australia Labor Mobility scheme with a debate about Ronan McRae’s book The End of the Gay Rights Revolution. 2. David Marr speaks with Peter Mares, adjunct senior research fellow at Monash University, and Ronan McRae, author and teacher of constitutional and European law at University College London, because both are tied to recent reports and books. 3. The episode asks whether PALM workers are treated properly and whether the gay rights settlement is more fragile than it appears. 4. Peter Mares says PALM, short for Pacific Australia Labor Mobility, grew from a small seasonal program into a workforce of 32,000 people across Australia. 5. He traces the scheme back to a 2008 pilot under Kevin Rudd and notes that it stayed small for years, with about 8,000 workers before COVID. 6. He says the coalition loosened some rules, while the Howard government’s 2005 backpacker visa created competition for fruit-picking and other labour. 7. Mares says the long-term stream was designed in 2018 as a four-year visa for jobs such as aged care and disability support. 8. He says the biggest long-term employer has become the meat industry, with about 11,000 PALM workers in meat processing. 9. He describes problems in abattoirs and horticulture, including overcrowded rooms, expensive accommodation, long walks to showers, and deduction disputes. 10. He says PALM workers are tied to one employer, which makes them reluctant to complain to welfare officers, liaison officers, or a Department helpline. 11. Mares argues that the tie to one employer is the central problem because workers fear being sent home or shut out of future jobs. 12. He says about two thirds of PALM workers are employed through 111 labour hire agencies, which is why he proposes letting workers move between those agencies. 13. He says workers should get Medicare, because temporary visa holders generally do not, and private health insurance can leave people delaying care until they become seriously ill. 14. He says superannuation is another problem because workers lose 35% when they withdraw their savings after leaving Australia. 15. He cites a Mossmont nursery near Griffith where seasonal workers from Timor-Leste and Vanuatu said the income let them pay school fees, build houses, and support relatives’ education. 16. He says the employer at Mossmont preferred PALM workers because they return year after year and know the product better than backpackers. 17. Ronan McRae argues that gay rights advanced after straight norms changed through no-fault divorce, contraception, abortion, and a new view of marriage. 18. He says the U.S. right has moved from Ronald Reagan-style small-state language to a post-liberal politics that targets gay rights, and he cites Republican support for gay marriage falling from 56% to 41%. 19. McRae says the movement moderated in the 1990s around employment protections and relationship recognition, but later broadened into LGBTQ plus politics that he thinks is politically vulnerable. 20. Listeners interested in migration policy, labour regulation, and gay-rights politics will get the most from this episode; listeners wanting a light, purely conversational show may skip it.

As heard by us

A measured look at PALM and the backlash around gay rights, with both treated as live questions.

Late Night Live turns to PALM and, with Mardi Gras approaching, to backlash around gay rights. The PALM section carries more of the weight, moving through work, health care, job mobility, and superannuation while keeping the scheme's wider purpose in view.

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You want a calm, unsentimental interview about Pacific labour and the backlash gathering around Mardi Gras.

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