Into It: A Vulture Podcast with Sam Sanders · Vulture & New York Magazine

Olivia Rodrigo and the Year of the Girl

September 8, 2023·43 min·3 clips

Olivia Rodrigo calls an ex a 'fame fucker' in 'Vampire'—what does this reveal about her songwriting edge?

This episode of Into It examines Olivia Rodrigo's career and the release of her second album, *Guts*. Host Sam Sanders is joined by New York Times pop music critic Lindsay Zoladz. They analyze Rodrigo's rapid rise from a Disney Channel actress to a defining pop star of her generation. The conversation centers on whether her initial success was a fluke and if she possesses the staying power of icons like Taylor Swift or Alanis Morissette. The hosts recount how "Driver's License" exploded during the COVID-19 pandemic, making Rodrigo the youngest artist to debut a song at number one on the Billboard Hot 100. They highlight the critical and commercial success of her debut album *Sour*, which won a Grammy for Best New Artist. Specific tracks like "Deja Vu" and "Good 4 U" are noted for their smart production and emotional range. For the new album, they dissect the singles "Vampire," with its dramatic shift from piano ballad to rock opera, and the bouncy, self-deprecating "Bad Idea Right?". They discuss Rodrigo's key collaborator, producer Dan Nigro, a former member of the emo band As Tall As Lions. A surprising insight is the analysis of Rodrigo as a "lowercase girl with caps lock feelings," referencing her ability to toggle between quiet, intimate vocals and powerful, belted outbursts. The episode explores the irony of her working with producers from the early-2000s pop-punk scene, which was often openly misogynistic. Lindsay Zoladz reflects on how Rodrigo's music fulfills a need for a female perspective that was absent from that era. The hosts also scrutinize the complicated comparisons to Taylor Swift, noting the songwriting credits Swift received on Rodrigo's *Sour* tracks and the apparent cooling of their public relationship. They place Rodrigo's work in the context of 2023 as a cultural "year of the woman," marked by Beyoncé and Taylor Swift tours and the *Barbie* movie. Zoladz argues that Rodrigo's music provides an antidote to simplistic empowerment messaging by voicing the messy, in-between feelings of young adulthood. The episode has a conversational and analytical tone, blending music criticism with cultural commentary. It is educational for listeners interested in the mechanics of pop stardom and the evolution of music industry trends. This episode is ideal for pop music fans, cultural critics, and anyone curious about the business and artistry behind a major pop phenomenon. Listeners seeking purely celebratory fan content or those with no interest in modern pop might find it less engaging.

As heard by us

A brisk take on why Olivia Rodrigo felt like a cultural switch flipping.

Sam Sanders treats Olivia Rodrigo as a before and after pop moment, with the deep-pandemic shift in pop serving as the backdrop for why her arrival landed so hard.

Read the full review in PlayNext →

Why you'd press play

You want the Olivia Rodrigo conversation that connects pandemic-era pop, bedroom pop, and emo in one sweep.

Read the full recommendation in PlayNext →

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