Karl Ove Knausgaard – The School of Night

·1 hr 17 min·5 clips

Karl Ove Knausgaard explains how a character with no empathy becomes free to pursue art without limits.

This episode features novelist Karl Ove Knausgaard in conversation with fellow writer Eliza Clarke about his latest novel, *The School of Night*. Knausgaard explains the book follows Christian Hodland, an unempathetic and ambitious art student in 1980s London who is determined to become a famous photographer. The author structured the novel as a standalone story within his larger "Morning Star" series, which explores interconnected narratives around a mysterious new star. Knausgaard began writing with only a few elements: a photographer in London, a connection to Christopher Marlowe, and themes of technology. He crafted Christian as a character who projects blame outward, a deliberate contrast to the author's own inward-facing guilt. Christian's lack of empathy creates a sense of freedom that drives the plot, particularly in his ruthless pursuit of artistic breakthrough. A pivotal scene involves Christian boiling a dead cat to photograph its skeleton, an act he sees as capturing the material essence of life. The novel also incorporates Faustian themes, inspired by Thomas Mann's *Doctor Faustus* and the historical figure of Christopher Marlowe, who was killed in Deptford—the same area where Christian lives. Knausgaard reveals he had to inhabit Christian's callous mindset for seven months during writing, drawing on his own "unempathetic thoughts" to create emotional truth. He connects Christian's personality type to figures like a young Donald Trump, noting how a lack of empathy can enable success. The author shares that a seemingly minor incident—Christian losing a lighter to a homeless person—accidentally became a plot point that changed the entire novel's direction. Knausgaard's writing process involves accepting whatever emerges during daily sessions, using specific music playlists to re-enter each book's atmosphere. The conversation is reflective and exploratory, with Clarke guiding Knausgaard through his creative process and thematic influences. The tone is intellectual yet personal, as the author analyzes his own methods and the psychological spaces of his characters. Listeners interested in literary craft, the psychology of ambition, and the dark side of creativity will find this discussion compelling. Those seeking a light or plot-focused interview might find the deep dive into artistic philosophy less engaging.

As heard by us

A measured conversation about fame, exposure, and the intimate scale of reading.

Karl Ove Knausgaard talks through The School of Night with a calm, careful hand. Set in 1980s London and centered on Christian Hodland, an art student chasing fame and glory, the book sounds most alive when the conversation moves past its tentative beginnings and into what My…

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For when you want Knausgaard on the cost of being widely read.

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