How to Make Decisions Under Fire

·32 min·3 clips

A 23-year-old SEAL faced execution by fake police and had to decide whether to abandon his swim buddy.

The episode begins with host Dan Bova introducing Mike Hayes, a former commanding officer of SEAL Team 2 with a 20-year military career including roles at the National Security Council. Hayes discusses his background, influenced by his grandfather at Pearl Harbor and his father's naval service, leading him to join the Navy via ROTC and eventually become a SEAL. He describes SEAL training's high attrition rate and mental focus. A key story involves a 1996 incident in Peru where Hayes and a teammate were held at gunpoint by fake police, forcing a life-or-death decision about loyalty. Hayes reflects on common experiences among SEALs, such as being shot at and performing emergency medical procedures. He explains how SEAL training builds comfort under pressure by repeatedly stretching limits, which he relates to managing business stress by avoiding worry over hypotheticals. Hayes contrasts military and business leadership, emphasizing vision over orders. The conversation shifts to purpose, with Hayes advising listeners to consider what gives them energy, what they're good at, and what the world needs. He shares personal motivation from losing 75 teammates and near-death experiences, defining his purpose as 'patriot' focused on unlocking others' potential. Hayes encourages community involvement, using his little league coaching analogy. He discusses his book's structure, split between philosophical long-game questions and practical exercises for decision-making. Hayes reveals that writing stemmed from a desire to share lessons before potential death, with all profits donated to his charity paying mortgages for Gold Star widows, totaling 12 so far. He concludes with a speed round on habits, patience, and leisure activities like wake surfing.

As heard by us

A grounded episode on keeping feared outcomes from overrunning the decisions that need attention now.

The episode gives decision-making under pressure a useful, practical shape. The guest's core idea is that stress expands when attention locks onto a feared outcome instead of the problem and opportunity directly in front of the business.

Read the full review in PlayNext →

Why you'd press play

You will hear a calmer way to stop a hypothetical disaster from stealing the decision in front of you.

Read the full recommendation in PlayNext →

Listen to the show on

Apple Podcasts Spotify

Play clips from this episode More from How Success Happens